Who's Online Now
1 registered members (solidstate), 6 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Newest Members
Prairieelevator, Robot Rob, Montkone, Jevans, Clayshooter
8395 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums13
Topics6,468
Posts36,643
Members8,395
Most Online117
Jan 16th, 2020
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#18624 - 11/11/16 06:54 PM Elevator speed on emergency power  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 49
InFritzWeTrust Offline
newbie
InFritzWeTrust  Offline
newbie

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 49
This is more of a rant than a question, but I'd like to hear other mechanic's thoughts on this.

Just went through a California state inspection on a two car traction mod. Group 4 code on an existing group 2 installation. Motion control M4000 controllers, hollister whitney machines, westinghouse cars, building has an emergency power generator designed to operate one elevator at a time when on generator power.

The controllers came programmed from the manufacturer (MCE) to run at 50% speed when on emergency power. The state inspector didn't know if this was allowed and called his boss the senior inspector for San Francisco. The senior answers back that they elevators must run at "rated speed" when on emergency power. That's fine, I change a parameter, takes less than five minutes and the cars now run at contract speed.I pass the inspection no problem.

I ask the inspector to ask the senior for a code reference for the "rated speed" when on emergency power for my future reference. (I will admit I was being kind of a smart ass, because I was pretty sure there was no such requirement.) The senior inspector answers back by email saying: "ask the mechanic where in the code it allows an elevator to run at reduced speed when on emergency power".

Ask a smart ass question, and get a smart ass answer. The installation complies with ASME A17.1 2004 2.27.2.1 through 2.27.2.5 which says nothing about "rated speed" at all. It seems to me then if there is no prohibition per code and no obvious safety risk to mechanics or the riding public, why does the code specifically have to allow various speeds? Why should the state just get to make stuff up when the manufacturer designs it state approved product to operate a certain way under various conditions. I trust the engineers at MCE who designed the controllers had a reason to have a reduced speed when on backup generator power, the state inspectors won't give any reasoning other than the code doesn't specifically allow it.

Well end of my rant. Does anyone have any comments?
Thanks, IUEC Local 8 mechanic, 12 years in the trade, first post here.

#18628 - 11/11/16 10:26 PM Re: Elevator speed on emergency power [Re: InFritzWeTrust]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 757
john jay Offline
old hand
john jay  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 757
ohio
As a QEI Inspector, I have no problem with a car running at 50% of contract speed. There is no Code requirement on this.

#18629 - 11/12/16 02:21 AM Re: Elevator speed on emergency power [Re: john jay]  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 49
InFritzWeTrust Offline
newbie
InFritzWeTrust  Offline
newbie

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 49
Thank you for your response, and for confirming my reading of the code.

#18632 - 11/12/16 02:47 AM Re: Elevator speed on emergency power [Re: InFritzWeTrust]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Johnny Offline
Journeyman
Johnny  Offline
Journeyman

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Portland. Oregon
If there is no Code requirement for rated speed, then reduced speed is allowed.

#18634 - 11/12/16 04:29 PM Re: Elevator speed on emergency power [Re: Johnny]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 757
john jay Offline
old hand
john jay  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 757
ohio
almost all the company's have an alternate profile to allow Emergency Generators to run more cars. It reduces the Current Load on the Genny.

#18678 - 11/17/16 03:16 AM Re: Elevator speed on emergency power [Re: john jay]  
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 5
Sully Offline
stranger
Sully  Offline
stranger

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 5
Wisconsin
I don't know how to do your job ,but my book says you are doing it wrong!what a dick,god bles sites like this for those who look for answers.local 15 brew town


Sully
#18692 - 11/17/16 09:54 PM Re: Elevator speed on emergency power [Re: Sully]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 757
john jay Offline
old hand
john jay  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 757
ohio
When doing an Acceptance Test the E Gen must be able to run the car from the top to the bottom with a 125% load without tripping the the governor electrical speed switch. Then remove the 25% overload and run the car with a full load up and down and check for proper operation. So after the 125% run to the bottom you can run at a reduced profile as long as you have proper operation. That is my opinion of how the code reads,this come from A17.2-2014 Inspection Guide.

#18781 - 11/25/16 07:25 PM Re: Elevator speed on emergency power [Re: Sully]  
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 49
InFritzWeTrust Offline
newbie
InFritzWeTrust  Offline
newbie

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 49
Who specifically are you referring to when you say they are doing it wrong, and what specifically do you think is wrong with the procedure? Try to be helpful, be specific.


Photo Gallery
PECCO PH5000 Overspeed Governor
Drive sheave
The best helper.
Rotary Oildraulic
Old Otis badge.
Brakes,Coil,Rotor
KONE MX10 repair tool kit
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.044s Queries: 15 (0.013s) Memory: 2.7053 MB (Peak: 2.8873 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2024-03-28 14:55:13 UTC