Flops and Bad Design

What is the biggest flop or worst design that you came across?

Isis prolly takes the title and the Otis Battery units was a pain.

In most cases everything looks good on paper to a engineer but until it gets in the field no one really knows and now its our problem.

Worst: Otis LRV, Thyssennkrupp 3 stage holeless pistons, Dover dmc sideslide door operator (rollback), Dover brake, Kone Mrl's, Schindler 330A, Smartrise glitchey processor, Amtech omega 1000, O&K escalator brakes, Gal aluminum arm on tall cabs (flimsy), Siemens softstart, Dover 4 slot, EECO valves, Dover I2, I3 valves (I know dover guys love them, not me though), Light bulb leveling, US 1220/1230.

Best: Otis 211, Maxton valve, All relay logic controllers, Dover dmc, MCE, Otis 311, MG'S w/ ssd1 boxes, jk thats too old school.

O&K escalators with gear set inside step band.

Schindler 321A, Otis MRVF, Anything KONE, and yes-light bulb leveling.

Otis MRQ-Spec 60,Dover IVO, Armor Dynaglide....

-Westinghouse World Class
-Otis MRS
-Armor TMS
-Dover T2 + Composite, never seen an ISIS thank goodness
-Schindler 330 plus(not sure of the model) the traction cars with the cheap AMF ice cube relays with the flimsy pins that bend and break when you install them

-Westinghouse World Class
-Otis MRVF
-Westinghouse Modular 100 esc-worst handrail drive system ever designed;followed by Otis 506 esc.handrail drive belt system.
Dover Dmc-take them all please..

Best Otis B-base..Elevonic 101/401,311.335.411,Gen,Gen2..211.Mce Hydro/Traction,Futura....Best handrail drive system Otis 506SL..

Any roped hydro, cheap TKE Aurora fixtures (Renaming them Enduro didn't make it better, go figure), PWM drives that destroy motor bearings and Virginia Controls with 200 plus ice cubes.

Otis MRVF, Schindler 330A, and ANY controller with a IBM relay.

Elaborate more on what made these so bad?

you guys have obviously never dug into a otis next-step escalator.

The IECA power units with twin holeless jacks and serial link Elevator Controls, and Atlantic Tech door operators. They are a disaster! They are built so cheaply, the cars shake, the valves start acting up the first time the oil gets hot, the serial link from E.C. Is not robust, any little interference and communication is lost. There are a lot of customers that must have been enticed by the cheap price. They are now paying the "price" for real. These were installed around the Midwest won't mention the name of the company, but it starts with the letter A.

Hey Elevatorfella, does the last letter of this stellar company end with the letter H?

No, "L"

I love 330a's, especially for troubleshooting. The feedback from the controller is awesome. The ride of the 330 isn't always the best, mostly from the rails in my opinion. A good sanding job and sanding the back of the follower guides (yep thats where they clunk) will reward the mechanic with a smooth ride. Replacing the CPU board will take care of most 94 and AST faults and is accomplished in under 30 minutes. The soft starter is easy to replace and I've been losing them on a regular basis, but they are made by Siemens and are also found in TAC20's. Other than the odd power supply failing I can't say I've ever had a 330 throw me a left hook. I consider these to be the friendliest elevators I've ever worked on.

Now, the LRV drives me beserk because of those stupid little wires and cheap harnesses and the fact the the CPU (in the car station) is often affected by interference.
The MVRF is a good source of deep cycle batteries for all the boats and rvs your elevator friends have, especially when they've only been in use for a few years. I believe the gearbox has helical gears too. They're just not fun to troubleshoot without training.

I used to hate DMCs until I went to bat with one that had shorted phases at the control transformer. Cooked damn near everything on the other side before blowing the fuses. After replacing every board on it and setting it up from scratch I began to feel more comfortable. I have a busy shopping mall with DMCS and WC (wire relay) and I have to credit the fact that they just run and run and run and give me very little trouble.

Now whoever designed the TMS200 should be dragged out in the street. I had word from a Finnish engineer that it was a control system and drive borrowed from a Kone Crane and adapted for elevator use.
TMS516's also fall under that category for me
TMS600's at least have a user interface to give you some comfort in your misery.
and you know while I'm at it, I'm going to throw a TMS50 under the bus too.

and EECO valves, because they're just Crap to adjust even after all these years. Why can't they emulate Maxton and allow you to control the settings independently? Why do they come out of adjustment on a regular basis? Why must every setting affect another setting requiring you to start over and re check everything you've just done? Why must they sit and provoke you, gloating in their ugly casting and vibrating a chorus of discontent to everyone who rides the lift?

Hydraulic MRL's ...... Enough said

Please post pictures!!! I'd love to see what abortion was constructed to save .2% of floorspace. Some buildings (universities and national defence buildings come to mind) have large easy to access and well laid out machine rooms with print tables and parts storage. Then theres some where the mechanics had to remove the controller from the tank to get them down the stairs to some far corner. I have one, thats in a shed in the back. Yep, bout 100 feet of buried piping laid in 1968. The machine room leaked, so they built another floor and moved everything up one level. Classic.

GP is that a NCE type? While not that bad to work on, escalators are really a pain in the arse ie removing steps, hand rail drives etc. We had a main step bearing callapse and was an absolute nightmare to repair.

You're crazy. Siemen's soft starters are great. Also how could you say I2, I3 and EECO valves are bad? Learn how to adjust them. They seem to hold the adjustments well. Ever worked on a Blain valve? They don't seem to hold an adjustment as well. Just my opinion though.

Worst pos is Garaventa Artira in my opinion. They suck.

I love I2 and I3 valves

You guys weren't even close.
Try Serge relay controllers
Haughton GAC1
Cvt 8800 full control ie Thames Valley
World Class
Otis MRV

^Is the Otis MRV the one that runs off of a bank of batteries and has multiple disconnects? If so, I agree.

The battery Otis is MRVF. Your all correct it is a POS. There were 400 Units in the USA and Otis spent 20 Million to make them run. I asked why not just spend that money on MOD and the answer was we have to give the customer what they bought to run without Building Power.

Any car panel that doesn't have hinges. You know those devices that were only invented in the late 1990's!!

junk right out of the box no doubt.

yea, the best valves for sure. solid. easy to set up.

T2's run pretty good man. Just hard to trouble shoot.

"Flops and Bad designs" huh? Lemme see....
For me...MRL's are bad design. I get the whole "usable space" thing and "Eco friendly" line, but unable to see a machine, working on a brake issue in the overhead where you need at least two mirrors and two more arms, seismic devices mounted on a plywood floor in a dorm? Please....
Next up would be TKE's blue ribbon winner "Cheapest Fixtures in The World". And a simple button repair is out as it seems there are no less than four generations of buttons that cannot interchange parts...nice.
And not to bang TK twice, but when in the world are those engineers going to design a floating selector box? C'mon!
Everything is great when it runs, but in a world of ADON boards, IOA's and D's...
redundant I/O's man it can be tough.
But then there is the old Amtech hydro with those stupid Midtex relays...50/50 chance you'll plug it in without bending one of those tin foil contact base fingers. I always felt I had to pull it out again just to see if they all went in.
There's more, but I'll leave that to the next poster.
Oh....remember the U.S. Diplomat selector system? Wild.

Schindler inverted telescopic jacks. Just did another packing change on one monday that blew out, big mess.

Otis 7660 Door Operator.. real POS

Montgomery Kone WG Operator

I was waiting for this comment. They over engineer everything and wonder why half their equipment doesnt run. Same can be said about Savaria. I've installed and maintained both.

Never understood the draw to these jacks, they almost never repack well and cleaning out the catch trays is a chore. Bloody disaster.

I'd like to meet the Schindler engineer whin thought that was a good idea. Hopefully we will be somewhere where nobody can hear him scream.

Whoever invented the MRL should be banned from the industry.

Thank you, what a POS!!

I once fought with one for a month on an HS that that would drop SS info with no demand and shut the car down. Between the slop in the gears, cable, that clutch, and the spring tension of the closed micro switch, it would just relax enough to come off that switch. Eventually I had to put on a weaker micro switch. Come to think of it, how about a controller that shuts down just because the door rolled off the closed switch. That extra closed switch was an afterthought though. Is that just a California code?

No Idea about land of fruits n nuts. Folks out there have a reputation. God will get pissed and Arizona will be beachfront land.

Serge and 330a's in duplex

Dude. Yes.

Did a mod on a job with one a few years back and we kept it... Didn't interface with the smartrise cartop board very well and it took me a day or two to work out a bunch of kinks. It had long floors, so it was impossible to watch I/O's on normal because it is vertical and 2" from the wall. I'd have to run it up 10 ft, make an adjustment, flip it back to normal, wait for it to relevel, test, repeat.... Just a terrible design.

Pretty sure KONE started this mess...

Serge Elevator and their infinite amount of selenium rectifiers.

Haughton Goldflight...

Otis Home Lifts