Westinghouse Question

I have a new job with 3 Westinghouse traction cars. The controllers are type smfa-rel. The building is a hotel that has just reopened. They changed the lobby from 1 to G which is a floor below. How do I get the cars to home at the new floor? Thanks.

While not knowing this equipment, in my experience homing have its own unique circuits that either feed a link to the lobby floor as a car or landing call. It may mean you need to trace that out and remove this link and replace it at the new floor. I would do it via terminal blocks at the back of the controller so it can be reversed if the need arises.

hopefully you have the original prints, it probably has basement service incorporated already. look into that circuit to see what you can do with it. that dispatcher can be complicated, its going to take some time to figure it out. Im not really sure what the basement service circuit is for, as i have never had to deal with it, but it might lead you in the right direction should be a fun challenge, good luck

M,
If you do have the prints, Westinghouse I believe use one of their relays for parking. I'm not familiar with the smfa-rel how does that differ from ERL?

Look for M69 switch at 1st floor and move it down to G

M69 is an individual type ES relay. How do I move it?

This is generally why you can spot mechanics from also rans(if this is what you mean). You never move 'switches/relays', as they dont need to move anywhere. Its the 'contacts' that make circuits so that's what you would move and I think what the poster meant. Spacial awareness is needed sometimes to be a lift mechanic as well as sometimes the ability to 'think outside the box'.

So if this contact is what actually sends the feed to the call relay then I would think I would disconnect these wires from the relay, and then just leave them in circuit at the other end and just terminate them in a connector and leave them be(so if the levels change again this can be reversed. Also mark then so other's can know what they are and mark the print also). Then I would simply copy what the old circuit(to level 1) is, at the g level and replace those 2 wires to the M69 relay.

Uppo,
Vatorman15 is not suggesting to move the M69 relay...
M69 relay provides a function. Micmerci should see this on his print.

Hey mate after seeing the print you sent me, I see what he meant. However im still not sure why that is important as it appears to be a limit to indicate the lift is actually on the main floor ( and drop the relay to stop the lift homing)but it doesn't send the lift there though. Even if you have a home relay with this m69 contact in circuit, you are still in cct to the previous main level of 1 not the level of g which is required now. Wouldn't you have to change where to give the lift a car call( level 1 to level g)?

If you understand what im trying to say.

Disregard this post. I didn't quite recognise the cct it referring to. My apologies.

Wonder if when the car becomes available while it's not at the M69 floor (after a certain amount of time maybe). Get's down direction and a start through selector contacts and heads for the switch? Just a guess. Move the switch and see.

Uppo
I'm trying to find out more.

E-man
I'm 99% sure that is correct.

Interesting.... Does this system operate like the Otis selector/control in that it doesn't have floor relays and the lift doesn't actually know where it is but just instructed to start/ stop when and where its told? If so what your saying will work as all it needs is a stop input(hs/cs) on Otis). My reasoning previously was I thought this system had individual floor relays and car/landing call relays.

If "g" happens to be the bottom landing now it will have a B69 relay. If extra unused contacts are available simply install a timer that puts a car call 301 in after timer sees it's been away from that floor at a preset time. You could actually prewire it to test if it's what your looking for? And then modify to suit job conditions. You may need to install contacts to disable feature i.e. (fire feature)

Hey mate, just to confirm I think the poster said the client 'wants' to change the home feature from level 1 to g so when you say it has its B69(is it b or m?) meaning its already been modified or all levels will have this relay? Does this equipment have normal climbing or does it operate like an Otis system and is given a direction and stop inpulse only.

Just as an update "G" is not the bottom landing so B69 would not apply. I am really a novice as far as Westinghouse is concerned. The selector really is not like Otis. Even if I could completely eliminate homing for the time being would be an improvement. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Mic
What is the print number for the car call relays?
Example 446C774

B69 is bottom floor selector reset...hence T69 is top. If you have multiple basements it won't work....If you only had 1 basement it might! M69 is main floor selector relay indication! You could try using a selector contact to trigger the call? What type of selector are you using? Relay or the old "monkey on a stick".

Relay type selector

There you go. Find a unused back contact of the floor you want to home and a timer to activate when car is away from landing after a given time. Once timer sets it will place a 300 call to start car to landing. Almost like a NDR feature (intense up demand) relay... I would temp. wire the feature and try it out. It won't be perfect, but better than rewiring controller and you can return it back to original dispatching fairly easy!

half pick would you then have to disconnect or turn off the original homing circuit so you don't have a car race from floor to floor?

You bring up a good point. Is it homing you want to change or Next Available with doors open and hall lantern lit? My circuit won't do that. Not an easy fix! My circuit will send a car to a floor you select.Open doors then close them, should stay at that floor (available) unless dispatched elsewhere. Once call is registered at floor a 42 relay will then open doors lite hall lantern and ring bell! That's why I would jumper in the circuit..Did I really just Say Jumper!!!!I meant circuit diverter and play with the design. You should be able to interupt the old homing circuit if you have the correct wiring sheets!

HP I think the poster wanted to change the level at which lifts homed at the bottom ie the main floor.

Yeah, I got that..And G is a floor below 1 which was the old main lobby for the elevators! G is now the new lobby, but it isn't the lowest floor for the elevators? Must have a garage or basement level....Just trying to determine if homing is the same as "next in lobby"....Most old Westinghouse units came wired with these provisions...Usually a jumper on two terminals to activate or (remove jumper) to eliminate feature! Usually the first page of the prints with all the available features on the controller!

Only stating that if you want to change homing of elevators with same " Next Features" just like old main floor...That gets alittle involved! GoodLuck!

Yep mate agree. The use other car or next up car would all be affected.

All this to re-engineer a 40 year old system is ridiculous. I know it is possible, an old Westinghouse hand could do it. But you are messing with group operation, maybe fire recall, if it has that. Call electrodyne or a similar company that has engineers and insurance. The Hotel really needs to upgrade to a whole new system. An Overlay will address the problem but it really isn't the best way. Doing this as a Technician should not be an option.

I agree, they need to mod. Although I hate overlays, an MCE would cut out the dispatcher and control fire service and all the code requirments of today.

I have an old 1968 REL job that had an MCE overlay installed in 1995. I'm starting to have issues with the MCE, it's almost 20years old. Who relies on a 20 year old car to get to work, much less a 46 year old elevator to keep guests happy?

I agree with the last few posts...The system is old and needs an upgrade. Sounds like they just restarted this hotel again....May need alittle time to get going before elevators are upgraded. Most likely upgraded the rooms...That is what people see? Bottom Line....That 40 year old system can still dance....But then what do I know,,,I'm just an old Circle W man!