problem with elevator KONE after change bearings

Hello,

I need your urgently support.
We changed bearings of machine type MX10, but now we do not have adjusment elevator. It is show error 117, 113 and 0083. We enters all parameters and "training" elevators, but nothing.
I understand that when we made repair machine we must change resover, but I do not sure this is truth.
Do you know?
Can you help us?

Hello Supervisor,
Please do not take offense, I'm just trying to understand who is asking for our help?
Are you the building supervisor?
Are you in the US?

You changed machine bearings on an mx10???? A bad drive or connection can cause a vibration similar to a bearing, , what kind of drive is it? An mx10 with a resolver?

Jkh "the supervisor" is juct nickname

rollaway-up - I am sure that the elevator has a problem with bearings. Yes machine has resolver. We change bearings and installed in the shaft. The first we have a problem with running on the elevator. When we push button for run-down, the elevator has run-up. Wr clear all parameters and enters again. And when we "training" eleator he run down and next run up and stop.
We think that problem may be in resover, but wr do not sure.

Sounds like the motor leads need to be swapped. The tach signals must match the governor encoder. Is this an ecodisc? Are you certain is resolver and not tach?

Where are you from?

We checked swapped and taho, but we have a problem yet.

That's the second time someone asked you where your from . How about a third ? Where are you from?....... And what type of drive . V3f25 ?

TS,
I'm having trouble following your request. Could we start over?
1) please describe the original trouble you were experiencing. What error codes were you getting?
2) prior to replacing the bearings, did you change any parameters?
3) after you replaced the bearings. What steps did you take to re-commission the elevator back into service?
4) what country was this elevator installed? I ask because I'm under the impression the MX10 was for the US market.

The more information (details) you provide the better.

This may be a stupid question but what on earth is a resover?

I have changed bearings on some mx machines before with no problems although I did have a step by step manual from kone elevator along with a tool kit. I also set up resolver from scratch and checked load weighing. Also check your connection on tac and resolver.

I am from Bulgaria.
We checked connection on tac, but nothing. I think that if we to have check connection, we to have open machine.

JKH - the machine has very hard noise and we were sure that problem is bearings and when the service opened machine this was right. Next we put the machine with new bearings, but cannot training elevator.

Sorry for confusion, but the situation is very critical for us.
we chech all parameters and boards and we think that problem is resolver and machine.
Do you have instruction or other docunentation and advice?

The resolver keeps absolute position of the shaft in relation to the magnets so the drive can give the necessary output.

Check to make sure LEDS TPOL and RPOL are illuminated when driving up, if not it could be polarity of either.

I still think your motor leads are reversed, youll need to get the car to go up when you run up on inspect, than confirm tach/resolver polarity with the leds.

Thank you rollaway-up, but we checked this without result.
Our colleagues tell me that the machine MX10 is not repair and only must be change. I am not sure for this.

The staeps we did after we installed the machine :

I.BEFORE we install the ropes :
1.Unplug the cable of the tacho (in the drive ) and check that the value of 6_10 is the same as the one in the drive (-2.704v) - done with no problems
2Unplug the cable of the tacho (in the drive) and switch the jumper S5 (next to the tacho) on 1-2 (test) and manualy rotating the machice to make sure we have correct signal on RPOL - done with no problems
3Plug the cable of the tacho (in the drive) and switch the jumper S5 (next to the tacho) on 2-3(normal) and manualy rotating the machine to make sure we have correct signal on TPOL - done with no problems
4Star menu 6-70 (adjusting resolver angle) and follow the beeping signal (4 beeps - up until it stops and 2 beeps down until stops) until the beeping signal stops and the angle is adjusted and check the angle in menu 6_61 - done with no problems
5We instal the ropes

II AFTER the ropes are installed :

1Start menu 6_70 again and follow the signal until the angle is adjusting and check the angle in the menu 6_61 - we had no problems with that
2.We adjusted LWD - we had no problems with that - now the elevator works correctly on both direction on inspection mode
3We check the speed on the inspection mode in 0.3 - menu 6_21
4We move the car just bellow bottom floor (61N signal is off - 61U,30 and 77N are on) - and start the menu 5_2 - 1(to start learning mode) - The car starts learing mode without problem and start moving up
5After reaching topmost floor the elevator stops - at this point this means the the elevator is ready for normal mode - here we have a problem - At this point the menu shows error 0109 and 0083 and if we leaved still on normal the elevator start to releveling on the floor (61N, 30 and 61U signals on and 77U on).After this point the elevator lost possition and cannot start

The only way to move it is on inspection and do again step 4..We made alot of tests - with magnets, with 61N,61U,30 ,77U and 77N signals, with tacho, we even switch the Drive board and installed it on the other elevator(and the board works correctly on the other elevator) - and we still get the same error once the elevator finish learning mode - 0109 and 0083

Ok sounds like you're doing the right things, ill have to think some more.

thank you

TS,
Are you using a written shaft learn procedure from Kone?

I believe 0083 & 0109 error codes indicate your elevator is getting lost during your shaft learn. This could be related to how you are performing the shaft learn.

It's the 113 & 117 error codes that are jumping out at me. I'm not sure but I think they are related to the sequence of your shaft way switches are made.

This has been sitting in the back of my mind since your first post. Is the drive a Yaskawa G5?

Sounds like not accepting learn check motor terminals as I have had that cause not to learn shaft properly

greg70 we check motor terminalas any times.

JKH the drive is V3F18

We almost sure that problem in is resolver, but when I open machine again we see resolver with white magnetic. In the site of Kone magnetic with black magnetis. I am not sure what is differnt.
Do you know number part or differnt of magnetics?

I would call kone and have them fix it for you and ask what was wrong. We fix elevators for other companies and vice versa when ever it's a high priority job. Just fixed a st for schindler last week and put in a digital drive in a st for otis. We all need help sometime especially me.

unfortunetly the local Kone cannot to help us and this is not first case

Why wont they help???...is there some previous problems that you have had with them..usually a company will jump at the chance to make some money!!!

I do not know why, but whenever we call for service or parts thereof have not received any response or refused.
Their only problem is that we're competition. We have not refused assistance.

Unfortunetly we change resolver,but nothing.
we see only error 117. How we can cleaning absolute?

Think i had a nightmare like this once.

117 drive setup fault-Reset setup from drive 6-16>4

Bad comm's cable LCE to Drive?? Incorrect Parameters in drive??

This job sounds like a living hell!!!

Unfortunatly - yes.
thank you

I meant check your comm's cable and tweak your parameters.

Are you getting any sub codes?

We will check cable again.
We see only error 117, but the elevator hasn't menu 6-16

V3f 18 so i am thinking the elevator is about 10 years old?

Do you get (-----) on the display when the elevator reaches the top floor on a shaft learn?

What software version do you have on LCE?

Have you tried changing the motor type in the parameters to something different, to say MX 20 and then changing back to your motor for example MX 10 as this ill load preset parameters into your drive. this is use full if you have been changing parameters and need to start over.

Also may be worth checking tacho filter parameters and that 77 switches are not getting a false signal during set up, from something like a guide bolt.

Do you get (-----) on the display when the elevator reaches the top floor on a shaft learn? - YES

What software version do you have on LCE? - I am not sure


Also may be worth checking tacho filter parameters and that 77 switches are not getting a false signal during set up, from something like a guide bolt - WE checked.

The elevators work in group with two same elevators.

Ok so i am going to presume that you have checked the limits are not to close at the top floor etc etc

And that you have done the resolver auto tune 6_70

Are you storing the parameters using initial settings 6_98 then cycling the power after setting resolver angle to 0 ?

And 6_99 to store in permanent memory?

Try changing the motor type and then back to your required type and the go through the parameters and store.

When we mafe parameters got angel mashina of 0 and next we back of previuse number. The elevator "want" we adjustmebt the loading devise. This is normal?

We solve the problem. Thank you for your advice.

And the problem was,,,and how did you fix it,,,,this could be interesting..

C'mon Supervisor don't leave us hanging..

here when he wants some advice, but when its the other way disappears and no thanks to anyone who might have helped out!!!

Yep,,,,something not quite right with this one....

kiwinightstalker and koss your comments are too hastily and irrelevantly.
anyway:
After we replaced the resolver and installed the machine we had problems putting elevator on normal - always getting error 109,117 after finising learning run(shaft setup)
After few days we decided to try to do the procedure from the start :

1.First thing we did is to remove around 100 kilograms from the counterweight (in our case in the past we had to install around 100 kilos into countweight in order to elevetor to work correctly)

2.After we did that we started with RESETING THE INITIAL SETTINGS - we manualy turn the value of resolver angle to 0 (menu 6_61) and after that turn the value of 6_98 to 1 - then turn the power off

After that we followed the steps from the instruction that we had for Drive type V3F25S (our drive type is V3F18) but they both operated with HCB board so the setting are the same just in some parameter the values are different
For example parameter 1_95 (DRIVE INTERFACE) - our correct value is 2 and our correct value of parameter for RESOLVER TYPE(6_39) was 2

3 Now after we have reset settings we check all the values in menu 6 - 6_1 machine type, 6_2 speed , 6_3 - load and so on and put the CORRECT VALUE OF OUR ELEVATOR (for example after reseting the motor type was 18 , the speed was 2.50 and the load was 1000 so we put the correct value for our elevator - in our case machine type 10(MX10) speed (1.60) and load (900)

4.After that we adjusted the LWD as in the instruction (menu 6_74 to -1 and save into 6_99 - again menu 6_74 to 0 (empty car) and save (6_99 to 1 ) - place around 50% of the rated load and put that value in kilos into the menu 6_74 and the save (6_99 to 1 ) - now we checked if the LWD is adjusted (if the car is empty we should have value of parameter 5_1 - 0 and if we place some load into car we should have the value of parameter 5_1 change in % )

5/As soon after LWD we re-installed the ropes and we checked that the traction sheave of the machine is free to rotate (WITHOUT ROPES)
Now we started with cheching the TACHO POTENTIOMETER -disconnected the tacho cable plug in HCB board and put the jumper S5 to test position - menu 6_10 and the value(in our case (-2.704) is the same as the one between AGND abd TAC after that we return the jumper S5 to normal position and re-connected the tacho cable plug.Next is we checked the Resolver polarity(RPOL) and Tachometer polarity(TPOL) that are correctly adjust as in the instruction . As soon after that we did the menu 6_70 (resolver angle autodetection - MACHINE IS STILL WITHOUT ROPES ) - when you put 6_70 to 1 the drive start making beeping sounds and have to give command in the correct direction - 4 beeps UP and 2 beeps down (You have to LEAVE menu 6 to be able to give commands to the drive in inspection mod ) - after we did menu 6_70 we INSTLLED THE ROPES and did the same with Ropes ( menu 6_70)

6 Now the elvator was ready for SHAFT SETUP (EMPTY CAR) - LEARNING RUN
We checked the valu of parameter 6_22 (inspection speed) one more time - it should be 0.3
We moved the car on inspection a little below bottom level ( led 61N DOES NOT LIGHT) and we checked the led 30, 61U, 77N and 77S do LIGHT
We are on RDF (inspection) - value of menu 5_2 to 1 and we put the elevator on NORMAL - the elevator start learning run.After reaching the last floor the elevator still getting the same errors as the begining (109.117)

We did the procedure for Shaft setup (5_2) THREE times in a row(without chaning anything - no moving magnets, no power off ) and on the 3th time the errors was gone and the elevator entered NORMAL MOD

Thank you

Nice one

Glad you got it sorted.

I do apologize about my comments, and thanks for the very detailed insight into resolution to your problem.

welcome

hi plz i belive you have problem with 77s check it in the terminal floors as the drawing and the fault 113 is (synchronize (77s) switch error
fault 117 is drive has no setup.
just check the the 77s and enjoy ur lift