1929 Otis Elevator problem/Need Help

Hello,
We have a four story building in Cleveland, Ohio. This building houses two 1929 Otis elevators both exactly the same. We are experiencing difficulty with one elevator. Upon being called, it vibrates severely. Fuses and coils burn out on a regular basis. We often, when going to the doghouse, find the nuts and bolts have loosened and wires have disengaged from their place. We also at times find the metal dividers between coils have disengaged and fell to the floor. We speculate that this is because of the vibration problems. We cannot pinpoint the cause of the problems but we think it may have something to do with the contacts. Event though, as mentioned above, we continue to replace fuses, coils and contacts the problem persists. We have had many service calls by licensed technicians who not only replace these items but work on the relay, cam arm and other mechanisms relating to the elevators service. However, the persists and we end up back at square one replacing coils, fuses etc.
Has anyone had this or similar experience with an older elevator. Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Thank you

Advice? I'm surprised I'm the first to say it, at least on this board- Modernization, and a full one at that...both cars for a better price.
Seriously though, it sounds like you're the building owner frustrated with the current situation, and do you not have an maintenance contract? Or call only when needed? With equipment in the condition your worst of two is in, I'm surprised any licensed company or mechanic invests time enough to find the root cause. Constantly blowing fuses, controller parts shaking off the board (do you understand what an "short circuit" is? It's the quickest way to big trouble), and untrained people working on the equipment? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. But more than likely, you've heard this advice before.
And one last comment: Some states which have conveyance licensing prohibit unlicensed, unauthorized personell from monkeying around with elevator equipment. In the event of an accident resulting in injury and or death, guess who takes the heat?- You Henry! Not being a smart alec here, but an untrained, unlicensed person working on your equipment puts not just a few people at risk; 1) The next elevator technician who you summon, 2) The riding public, and 3) You.

First of all Ohio does not have a license for Elevator Mechanics. That tells me you may be using Licensed Electricians to do the work. However if that is in fact the case you need to call an Elevator Company, I would start with Otis.

Hello,
First thank you for viewing and replying. Of course we have licensed technicians work on this elevator only. However, what we find is that they they get the elevator up and running by changing the fuses and coils, refining the relay and replacing the carbon pads, adjust the cam arm etc... This gets the elevator running for a short time and then it goes down again. Sometimes it can run up to a month or so and sometimes only for a couple days. We enter the doghouse after it goes down and more often than not a coil or a fuse is out and there are nuts and bolts on the ground and wires have gotten loose on the front of the mother board. Again, this elevator sounds like it is working very hard or grinding compared to the other elevator that is the exact same on the other side of the building. When you press the call buttons or floor buttons the elevator that breaks down almost jumps into gear and then grinds its way up. It seems like the contacts are not connecting correctly and the power is in and out. We have exhausted many licensed technicians that seem to not understand the root of the problem and have entered the forum to seek advice that we can then pass on tho the technicians.
Thank you so much

Hello, just to make it clear we use only licensed elevator technicians. They are not just licensed electricians.
thank you

Henry,
Because of the age of your equipment, we will recommend it to be Modernized.

Try and post a short video of the hoist machine running. Which ever direction you think is worse.
What I'm looking for is the type of machine
The shaft connecting from the motor to the brake to the bell gear box
The play in the thrust
And the brake lifting
And if you can post a picture of the controls, that would be great..

Do you rely on a 86 year old car to get around town everyday? Does anyone in your building own a 86 year old anything that they use everyday? No.

A full modernization is the safest solution. If a full modernization is not feasible in the immediate future then a control relay overlay might be an option. I have done a few of these myself and it does make a controller safer with newer designed parts which are less of a fire hazard. An overlay will be fairly expensive to do properly and is only a temporary solution. It would be better to put that money into a mod.


The other components of the elevator(machine, brake, fixtures, etc.) might be in just as bad of shape as the controller so reliability might only be achieved with a full mod.

Either turn them off or bring them up to date.

I wouldn't go near those units. Things shaking loose! Holy lawsuit Batman.

Henry, firstly thanks for your post. If a lift is shaking parts of a controller, something is seriously wrong, most likely mechanically. Do you feel like the vibration is coming thru the floor of the car? Or is in the machine directly above the hoist machine? Does replacing the contacts on the controller fix this?Either way, it can lead to a catastrophic failure, particularly if its the lifting machine ie a failure of input shaft into the gearbox(geared machine), which can lead to a unintended lift movement.

Think of the controller parts as a secondary issue, so try to figure out the vibration. I would go over the whole mechanical set up if it was me.

But it still comes down to the issue of age. When you purchase a building, you would have to plan for obsolescence costs, as part of the management planning. It comes hand in hand with rental fees that you generate. I understand it isn't as simple as that sometimes, but it your responsibility. Think of it like this, the best building provide its customers with the best environment, the best relationship with each other, within the confines of the pricing structure. That means, on the flip side, that if you customers are scared to travel in the lifts, then they may decide they want to move to another building, and then you lose revenue. Even if use the whole building yourself, think of it as capital works, which can increase the value of the structure and its future sell price. Even if you staggered the upgrade( I would go a MRL type lift as a complete upgrade) with the bad lift first, it is the way to go.