Wheel-o-vator Roped Hydraulic governor operation

I apologize in advance for the long story.

I go to a small church; we have a 5/6-yr old roped hydraulic elevator that gets very modest use. Maybe up & down 3-4 times a week.

I do most of the maintenance on the facilities in my spare time. My elevator maintenance company does a minimal inspect/lubricate twice a year by my contract. And then they have to have two guys present at my annual inspection.

I was present at the last annual inspection. I wasn't hovering over the guys; I was in the next room doing some other stuff. They spent about 30 minutes trying to make the overspeed/governor safety activate with no success. I got the impression we were still passing the inspection from the state inspector (New Jersey) but I guess what he meant was we could continue to operate. That day, the elevator maintenance co. said it should be no big deal to fix it. Then we got the write-up from the state inspector stating the fault on the governor. Ok, fine, I proceed to get ahead of things and get my elevator co. in to do the governor repair in plenty of time for the re-inspection which will no be at the semi-annual. (which normally doesn't require my co. to be there but will now)

I call to get them in to do the (supposed to be simple) repair and was told they have no idea what needs doing, they don't get the inspector's report, please send it. I do that and about a month later I get an email saying that basically the repairs were done that day & the faults are do to water damage (I am still dealing with keeping water out of the pit) and that will be taken care of with their October (pre-annual inspection) proposal. But that proposal was a $2800 bill to just scrape and paint the 'pit equipment' which I did myself before the annual inspection, rather than pay elevator repair labor rates for paint work. I immediately call and get put through to someone that is the service coordinator and after explaining the proposal was just paint work, he says the governor rope needs shortening. He's not sure when this was determined to be a needed repair but that he can see it in pictures(?) He reiterates that the governor safety activation issue is fixed. I call and after a few days speak with the state inspector who says, no, nothing was fixed that day. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a fail report.

So: If anyone can suggest a course of action? I am considering learning how to test the governor safety myself but it seems to be a two man job. I am not certain if the testing that day was simply manually swinging the counterweight but the inspector explained that this was one way of testing it. The "governor rope shortening" job is proposed at $2000.

Again, thank you for any advice.

Here are a few pictures of the unit:

[img:center]http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/015_2.jpg.html[/img]

[img:center]http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/016_2.jpg.html[/img]

[img:center]http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/017_2.jpg.html[/img]


[img:center]http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/020_2.jpg.html[/img]

Although I appreciate your concern, learning to perform the test does not ensure an inspector will allow you to do so.

I'm sure you are competent at what you do. And it sounds like you are completely frustraighted with your current service provider.

The red (orange?) wheel in your picture is the governor tension weight. Is it moving freely? It appears to be hanging well.

If you are dissatisfied with your current company, call another company or ask your inspector to recommend three other companies.

Not all companies & customers are a good fit for each other...

I agree with jkh. The item in the pic is the tension weight, if it spins freely and moves up and down in it's guide freely it is probably good. Judging by the color of the cable, the cable may need replacing. If they couldn't get the gov to set, most probably it's the flyweights on the governor. Most places require trained elevator men to perform the tests, safety reasons, and if you lost faith with the company the easiest thing is to get a second opinion or search for another company

Thank you jkh, Boa.

I was only considering evaluating testing the governor myself, simply to ascertain readiness for inspection, since I think my company is wrong about it. I will get a look at the unit again soon but the 'wheel' just seems to be a fixed in place pulley to me? In the new near $2000 proposal, it is said "the overspeed governor rope has stretched and requires shortening" I'm pretty sure this has been kind of trumped up. If I was totally sure, I would switch companies without thinking about it. The lingering doubt is what puts me in a conundrum. I need a governor fixed to pass my inspection, the inspection itself costing a minimum of $400 and my company wants to fix something different. So with or without spending $2k with them, I expect to fail again and either have an elevator put our of service, fines for a second fail, or at least the cost of another resinspection. Thank you again for the advice.

This is my ideas just from the basic pic's, but done take this as gospel.The pic's are showing the tension carriage for the governor rope. The rope does appear to have some very minor kinks and showing some orange tinges so it may be the start of rust. If so the rope does need replacing. As to tension (of which these kinks then may be ok), if you notice the centre bolt in the middle of the tension diverter sheave, is the floating point for the whole system and is supposed to float or move up and down. You have painted the area, so check and make sure this can move and is free and maybe lube it with grease. The black weights are supposed to regulate this float. With the bolt in the centre of opening and with the rope a little loose, the rope may need shortening. As to get the unit to over speed, I don't think you will be able to do that, but we have had a switch on the controller(not sure on this equipment) to trigger the fly ball action on the governor to activate this, to test everything. In my experience these governors get actioned by bouncing of the lift or governor rope sticking and lifting.

Dean,
If you can take a picture of the governor that would be great. Many of this style elevator use a governor that allows us to overspeed it at the governor. A picture will tell.

Thank you for the additional replies. jkh, I will get some closer pictures on Saturday. Do you mean low by what I was considering a pulley? I'll get a good compliment of pictures and post initially the ones I best determine are relevant, and can post additional ones if I've haven't got what is needed.

Finally got over there to get some pictures after the snow here in NJ. Here are the link:

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev1.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev2.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev3.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev4.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev5.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev6.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev7.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev8.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev9.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Elev10.jpg.html

Let me if this helps or if you'd like better shots of anything in particular. That bottom 'pulley' (I call it a pulley) can be turned by hand, eg., there is not a ton of tension on it. And I think it may be plastic.

Thanks guys.

Dean

Dean most of the equipment in those photos relate to the hoisting ropes on the acceding ram, and the safety gear. You need to show the governor at the top of the shaft, but maybe you cant safely. Don't do any thing unsafe or what you aren't qualified to do.

Understood, thank you for explaining. I thought the 10kg weight at the bottom was related to the governor/overspeed mechanism. I will try to determine why next steps in getting this unit ready for re-inspection.

Actually the governor diverter sheave is related to the overspeed operation, but the latest photos near the ram and underneath the lift car are related to safety gear( which is related to the overspeed operation) and a bit about the hoisting rope. But lets simplify the issue. What I meant was the actual governor would be at the top of the shaft and that is what is determines how the lift over speeds.

Or quite simply, the other "wheel" at the top, which carries the rope over and then back down. It should have some mechanical/centrifugal properties as well as electrical connections. The "orange wheel" at the bottom most likely has a switch that opens (and ceases all operation of the lift) when the wheel drops too low, due to rope stretch. But all that nice white paint may prohibit that action.
Awaiting more photos!

Finally, pictures of the actual governor. Thank you for insights.

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov1.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov2.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov3.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov4.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov5.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov6.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov7.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov8.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/ElGov9.jpg.html

We'll just " hang in there for awhile" and check back.

Were the new 9 photos not helpful? let me know what else I can do. I'm safe and comfortable on top of the car.

Dean,
The governor is as I suspected. The governor model on your unit is not equipped with a secondary sheave. The secondary sheave allows you to overspeed the governor.

In your first post, you said your current service provider was try to overspeed the elevator. My question is how did they do this on the prior tests?

am I missing something here like no electrical switch on gov.An is this gov like the Apollo were cable gets pinched into groove to pull out safety's.

That governor looks like a dumb waiter type. No electrical trip as it appears to only activate the instantaneous safety gear. The tiller rope attached to the governor rope will trigger the action. Either way unless you happen to get the pump unit to massively over speed I cant see how it will trigger an overspeed situation. You may be able to test that the action works by lifting the roller high enough by another means ie an attached small rope linkage, whilst the lift is moving.

JKH, the secondary sheave your talking about, is this a method to trigger a overspeed action? Got a picture?

I have over speed a roped hydro by first spinning gov to get speeds then take to top floor an send down turn down speed on valve to get to set you be surprised how fast it will set.hopefully they don't have rupture valve in pit.

From the pictures of the tailend sheave (Orange wheel) and the governor sheave (yellow wheel) the governor cable definitely has slack in it. This slack will cause the governor not to trip at the proper settings. The tailend sheave doesn't look to be bottomed out thought. The bolt in the center of the Orange sheave should move up and down freely in the slotted hole. From the picture, it looks to have more movement in the down direction. Is the bolt in a bind or stuck from the paint? If the slotted hole is deceiving and the tailend sheave (Orange wheel) is bottomed out then shortening it is the only option.

Thank you. I did try to determine the method of overspeeding, at least with the state inspector, and he didn't recall specifically what they did/do for our elevator. I'm not sure that my current company will tell me. From the further posts, I'm going to check the free-ness and room left in the bottom orange pulley.

Regards, Dean

Below are some pictures of the bottom wheel/tailend sheave. While there was some paint slopped on there , I feel pretty confident that the bolt through that bottom pulley was always tight and not allowing free movement in the slot. Supporting that proposition, when my company was spending 30+ minutes/most of the annual inspection time trying to make the overspeed safety activate (again, I don't know the method, I was in the adjacent office, not by the elevator, hovering over them), they didn't mess with the bolt on that tailend sheave. I was pretty sure of that from listening, plus the paint on that bolt head was undisturbed, unlike when I loosen it up to test it out last night.

When I got the bolt loose enough, the pulley was relatively free in the slot. Once it was though, there is no natural weight pulling it down.. it just sort of hangs there and while it seemed pretty free, making it go down and very tight was tricky to figure out how to do-- I may go back, leave the bolt just barely loose and tap the bolt head and double-nut end ends down little by little with a block of wood.

Important:
Once again, my elevator company has claimed that the cable shortening proposal has nothing to do with the overspeed safety activating. They claim that they fixed that fault the day of the inspection and that separately, this cable issue was observed. My best guess, actually, is they didn't want to loosen and move the pulley down (maybe a little too much work day of inspection.), then were dissastified with that 1hr service call and would rather charge $2000 to shorten the cable... as how can the cable tension not be related to the overspeed functioning properly. Also, by the way, remember this unit is extemely low usage... so how much can this cable stretch with little tension or weight on it... and I feel confident that re-tightening by relocation of the pulley within those few inches to the floor that are there will keep this thing tight for a long time.. .then maybe a cable tightening is in order after one more adjustment down...and then I can find out if it really is a $2k job. Again, there is no weight on that bottom pulley, so I don't see why that bolt would be normally loose in the slot.

Once again, thanks to you all, I appreciate it very much.




http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Sheave1.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Sheave2.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Sheave3.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Sheave4.jpg.html

http://s234.photobucket.com/user/deanm11/media/Sheave5.jpg.html

Deanm11. One last thing that weight is hooked to sheave an that paint between support is not letting normal tension to happen you have less than 1/4" before your switch trips have company shorten rope an clean an free everything up before you become a casualty or amputee .Leave it to skilled professionals.Unless you work for free your time was worth the 2000 you could of already spent.

Just a few points here. Please please don't do anything that would risk any injury or risk the normal operation of the lift. You don't want to do something which gets someone hurt, and have that on your conscience.

-The bottom sheave is definitely supposed to float up and down and not be stationary, as why would the need for a electrical limit or switch at the top? The weight is the black thing above the what you call a pulley. We have in the past needed to add weight to get the right rope stretch, as you don't want the rope to pull thru and not engage with a loose rope. So make sure that the sheave is free and able to move up and down regardless of paint indication. Also they are right, the rope length is not related to the over speed testing, unless this cable just pulled thru as I said above. If it wasn't that then is a separate issue. You may only have about an inch left before that limit actuates which then means the rope needs shortening. So sometimes it is a good idea to do the works, before a fault happens to be above the curve. This is why we call it preventative maintenance.
- have they actually signed off for the annual overspeed testing? If not what is the reason why it isn't working they gave you?

Thank you very much. The state says it failed. Just like everybody, including the maintenance co., the day of the inspection. Months later, the maintenance co. insists that was fixed the day of the inspection. I call the state inspector and he says I wouldn't have written it up if it was fixed. There's the problem. I'm going to get another company in here.

Dean

It seems to me that if the company says it has fixed any issue, then they should provide a written report to that effect and that any issue was repaired and subsequently tested ok. Something here is not quite right. However you may have to be the pragmatist here and just get another company in to retest it.