Composite Trouble

I am having a problem with a Composite cancelling calls. If you latch consecutive calls, let's say 4,5 and six, the car will stop at four and cancel five. The car will then run to six. This happens in both directions and throughout the rise.

I have cleaned all floor bars, replaced selector guides, replaced a few "frog leg" switches and cleaned the brass/Formica cam. This problem seems like it should be simple, but it is kicking my ass. I have three sets of prints, but none are job specific. What I will probably end of doing is running the car to every floor and metering between the sled and floor bars. I believe my problem lies somewhere in the UCT, DCT and CCR lane. Do UCT and DCT hold a call ahead or behind from cancelling?

We tried to order replacement floor bars from SEES, they are too narrow and not thick enough. I left a message with Vertex and never got a call back, where do you guys get these parts?

Also, I read about somebody having less of a carbon dust issue using E41/C brushes, anybody else have some experience with these brushes. Is E41/C the complete part number or just a prefix or suffix?

Thank you

Personally, I'm not a fan of experimenting with multiple brush types.

As far as canceling calls, is it just your car calls canceling? Or are both hall and car calls canceling?

I would also make sure nothing is trailing across UCT, DCT to CCR.

Car calls only, I will check for shorts in that lane. Thanks.

That does sound strange. Just If clarify, say you placed 3,4,5,6 would it run to 3, drop 4 and 5 then run to 6? Or would it run to 3, drop 4 then continue to 5 and 6 or would it run to 5 and cancel 5 and 6?

You may want to check this:

To check the setting of the car transfer contacts:
1. Place the selector carriage at the center of the master floor bar by
rotating the shaft until the pointer is again at zero on the dial. Move
carriage so that CCR is in the center of the floor bar contact.
2. Without moving the selector carriage, see that brushes UCT and DCT are
touching the neighboring floor bars.
3. Move selector carriage in the direction for up travel until the first
down slow down brush has passed the first slowdown contact on the master
floor bar. At this point, the transfer brush, DCT, should still be
touching the contact on the master floor bar. If this is not the case,
move brush DCT until it touches the floor bar contact.
4. Repeat the operation for the up transfer brush, UCT.
The positioning of the transfer brush is
essential for a one floor run slow down sequence. Upon energization of
relay UX, for instance, for a one floor up run, relay CC is energized
just prior to running. CC picks up CS, which seals in IFR, and the car
accelerates to one floor run speed.

If I latch 3,4,5 and 6:

Runs to 3 drops 4
Runs to 5 drops 6

I have floor bars on the way for tomorrow, I can't believe that they are all worn enough to cause this problem

I have the same write up, thanks to another member, I am not really comfortable uncoupling the selector just yet.

Almost guarantee your problem is with the UCT Brush. Check:

1. Brush must be of the Insulated Butt style (Contact segment must not wrap around the hinge end.
2. Brush must not touch the contact segment on adjacent floor bars simultaneously. Understand your reluctance to uncouple selector, but you won't get into any trouble as long as you mark position of selector carefully and re-couple at same point. The "0" mark on the dial should be lined up with the pointer when the elevator is at one of the middle most floors. That is the best place to uncouple. Simply remove the two 0.375" bolts in the hub. Crank the selector up / down and make absolutely sure that the UCT contact segment never makes contact on two adjacent floor bars at any given time. The insulated butt should lift the brush up before the contact segment makes contact on the next floor. Check brush type. Should be same style as DCT, UHT, and DHT. If the brush makes contact with adjacent floor bar segments, when controller issues cancellation signal, both call will be cancelled.
Good Luck.

May or may not help, I've had a triplex and single ones that the selector guide rails had gotten gunked up by the carbon dust, made cariage jump and cause all sorts of problems. Other than that, also had the guide screws get loose and made cariage ride lower causing skis to make wrong.

Good call, previous mechanic had changed UCT and DCT switches with the wrong style switch. Replaced switches and set distance from CCR the same as adjacent car, my problem remains. I moved UCT and DCT as close to CCR as possible, no difference.

I metered between floor bars with the car running and never saw either switch contact two bars at once. Ran the car on inspect with a meter across floor bars and never saw two of them ring together. I'm calling for help and probably uncoupling the selector on Monday.

Thanks guys.

Uncoupled the selector and cranked it top to bottom; UCT and DCT never contact two floor bars at the same time. Still cancelling calls ahead.

Took another stab at it today and noticed something new right at quitting time: if this car arrives at a landing with both an up and a down call latched, the car will cancel both hall calls. More to look at tomorrow.

I had one do the same thing. Turns out it was closing the door to fast and bouncing the lock cancelling out my one floor run

This one cancells both calls before the doors begin to open. I took another stab at it today, changed some floor bars, still no luck.

I noticed on a working car, UCT or DCT contacts the floor bar for a call ahead and the voltage on the floor bars dips and comes back up. Voltage dips from around 48 VDC to 36 VDC and the comes back up to 48 VDC. On the bad car as soon as either switch contacts the floor bar, no voltage.

Dude you might have a welded contact on the CR relay

Swapped both CR relays and CC relays from working car, I'll double relay bases next week.

Do the calls cancel at the exact same time? If they do, there must be some continuity between CCR & UCT/DCT, maybe a short or jumper in UX or DX relay or base. There should be no continuity with both UX & DX dropped or with them removed. If the far call cancels early, I'd be curious if it cancels before CR picks, maybe something jumping around The CR contact. You may want to block CR contact 1 from closing to prove that the call is dropping through that path. CC is a black 32vdc relay right?

CC relay coil is 32VDC. Calls do not cancel at the same time, call ahead cancels later, but before doors begin to open.

Is UX/DX re-picking before the doors open? Maybe a problem with the CS relay could cause UA/DA to pick as son as LUD dropped. CS should stay picked until door open time expires.

Newmech,
I've been following this thread from when you first wrote. Have you found what is causing the trouble yet?

Not yet, took a four day weekend. Should have some help this week, I'll be sure to post the resolution.

Did u fix it

Problem has not been resolved. Issue appears to be caused by V relay picking and dropping. We started pulling wires, we have three sets of prints and none of them match our controller. The customer needs to purchase prints.

You may want to check how your V relay contact in you CS circuit holds in CS for your first slowdown before a call is canceled.

Resolved

Finally got job specific prints. 10A2 was not picking because..............of a bent contact in the relay base. Bent the contact back into place and all is well.

Peski bent contact!