tac 50-04

just inherited a tac50-04 mod with Danaher gearless machine . have 10 cars with the same machine. they were modded in 2013-2014 i believe. building indicates thyssen has been trying for many months to fix this problem but have not succeeded.
problem happens once or twice a week. here is the info i have gathered from mechanic.
car shuts down on safeties or run monitor i believe
flt 1700 UMD device dropped. car is always at bottom floor, car vel and dmd vel are always 0 Dpp count is always within 4-5 counts of actual count at bottom
under "D" in fltn window, there is a - sign

one thing i noticed with info he gave is there are many 1698 faults UIM main brake failed to hold car after stop . it does not shut down car, and there were 76 of them on the fltn command. looks like they are always at the bottom floor, and the dpp count is always within 4-5 of actual. he was at job, and saw the car log the 1698 fault and reported it stopped normal and had no signs of a problem, besides the logging of the fault

engineer says they have had many mechanics and have replaced many parts over the last few months, to no avail. being the new company we have no idea what has actually been replaced. any ideas?

What kind of drives do they have? What type of position encoder did they use? If they are 32 bit you may want to start a logfile to analize next time it comes in. I don't know this machine but I would want to put in 125% and make sure that main brake will hold. I recently had a Synergy that would creep up only at the bottom floor, re-level and repeat. Usually wouldn't even throw a fault but in certain cases I would get a UIM. Both brakes held 125% and counterweighting was right on. It was slipping traction and only at that one spot. The ropes were slightly smaller where they contacted the drive sheave with the car at 1. 200lbs on the car eliminated the problem and a re-rope solved it for good.

If you think it's traction slow your acel/deceleration rates and see it that helps. If problem goes away then you know it's a traction problem. Is the gearless double wrapped on machine and is car 1:1 or 2:1??? Are you using 32 Bit IMS? If all parameters are at defaults, good chance you are slipping.

32 bit ims, 1:1 , I guess i have to find out more to answer the questions. not sure what drive it is i think it may be a quantum drive it has the UIT mounted on a board on front of drive panel. from the pics he sent me i do not see a mcvint card, so not and accord? not to familiar with drive names, so need to get up to speed on that.
not sure about the position encoder either, thanks for the responses, ill get more info when i go out. and i will check what you have advised.

here another shot of drive

quantum quiet ac drive,? is synergy same as quantum quiet ac?

I believe that is a accord drive.

I recently picked up 8 units with this type of drive which I too think is the accord drive. One unit was shutting down and causing entrapments about once a week and the faults indicated a bad encoder resulting in uim. I replaced the encoder board on the governor but I don't think the board itself was the problem. When I replaced the board I noticed the 2 small optical horseshoe sensors on the old board were just barely around the disk on the governor. I adjusted the new board so it was up into the plastic notched disk by about another 1/8th of an inch. I haven't had another motion fault since. These units were also modernized around 2013 and the maintenance guy said they've been problem child's from day 1. I've had a few other issues that have all turned out to be poor adjustments to devices like the brake, rope gripper, and gate switches.

That is a standard 10K quantum drive. One thing I should tell you is that it has an absolute encoder so likely a PM AC motor, that goes to an interface board probably in a J box near the motor. That goes to that RC2 adapter board plugged into the 2407MC board. That RC2 board was an afterthought to adapt a 10K drive to work with an absolute encoder, it is a weak point but shielding is critical! The encoder shield goes to ground inside the encoder but the shield terminal on the RC2 board also goes to ground so make sure the shield is not landed at the RC2 or tailed out to ground anywhere, just in and out of the interface card and dead ending at the RC2.

But I doubt the motor encounter is causing UIM faults, they would be more like 681s or something similar. Pos. encoder or traction is where I would focus. Shielding is important on the Pos enc too, make sure there are no ground loops i.e. shield grounded on one end and one end only. If you have the optical gov setup that JC mentioned the board should be as high as it can be without rubbing the plastic ring, centered on the plastic ring, the ring needs to be kept clean and make sure the black part isn't scratched off anywhere or it should be replaced, oh and make sure there isn't too much slop on the gov rope at the car attachment.

"Synergy" is the MRL product, it uses a Torin PM gearless machine and either an Accord drive or a 10K with the RC2 adapter like your picture. On the Synergy, in addition to the encoder shielding, the brake switch shield should be landed on one end too but the brake coil and motor wiring shield needs to be grounded on both ends to keep the noise in. Also, just because the wires land to the shield terminals doesn't mean they're grounded.

I'll send you something on setting up the logfile.

thanks indirtwetrust, i have the usb stick that was plugged into car, i brought it home to copy, was digging thru it and see the log files, just need to try and make sense of them, i just took a quick look, ill look again. thanks again guys for the info

Thanks for the info on what kind of drive it is. I have no info for this 10k quantum drive. Does anyone have any info on it?

I haven't had any problems with them yet except an intermentant fault saying that the drive didn't respond to a run signal which doesn't shut the unit down.