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Swift futura problems

Posted By: Scarz3

Swift futura problems - 06/22/17 04:44 PM

Hi all.

Been having problems with a couple of swift futura units.

Usually they run fine for anything between 1 hour to 3 days, and then they break down.
Usually getting faults 9 & 10, and usually crashes out on fault 18. Although other faults have been appearing.
Modules and contactors have been changed. DPP switches have been changed.
Drive, encoder, brake board have all been swapped with known working ones.

Also on our DPP switches we're reading between 3.0 and 3.4 volts on DPP2 depending on adjustments made and nothing seems to get it down to the correct voltage.

We just can't seem to get to the bottom of this.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Posted By: Jluff

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/22/17 09:01 PM

Check the SCRs. Usually on the back of the controllers. I think any high readings between pairs around 19-20ohms or higher means they need to b replaced
Posted By: Jluff

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/22/17 09:43 PM

Are they MG? If so check the field weakening also
Posted By: elmcannic

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/23/17 04:15 AM

Sounds like you've eliminated a number of possibilities.
What type of contactor or contactors are being used? The late 1990's Futuras used a pair of loop contactors with huge micro switches under the coil. Problematic design. Faults 18 & 94 you get about every time a recovery has initiated.
Does this job use the RVU Wizard thing? If so, you can set the system to capture just about any fault then playback the screen and watch all inputs before the fault occurred... great tool. Are the ropes sliding on the sheaves maybe?
And lastly, has the building put any antennae or satellite dishes and their associated cabling near the machine room? Ask me how I know about this one! No wait...don't!
Posted By: Scarz3

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/23/17 08:22 AM

Thanks for your reply, sorry but what's MG?
Posted By: Scarz3

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/23/17 02:38 PM

Contactors are all Schneider. No satellite dishes positioned near any of our equipment. Will have a go at using the playback tool on the wizard. Thanks
Posted By: Scarz3

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/23/17 04:41 PM

Ok, used the frame playback, when the lift crashes, we get fault 94 and 24 in the same frame, and we also lose EMSD. Nothing else drops out.
Does this indicate anything other than the drive?
Posted By: elmcannic

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/24/17 01:22 AM

Scarz,

Are you a certified elevator mechanic or building owner?
Posted By: Scarz3

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/24/17 09:39 AM

Here in the U.K., we're called "Lift Engineers" smile
These units are few and far between over here.
Posted By: jkh

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/24/17 01:48 PM

Scarz3,
The common denominator of 24 and 94 errors is your encoder. PM your email address. I have a few things I can share.
Posted By: jkh

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/24/17 01:48 PM

Scarz3,
The common denominator of 24 and 94 errors is your encoder. PM your email address. I have a few things I can share.
Posted By: Jcjmowrey

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/25/17 12:00 PM

I had same faults occuring on a swift 5000 with a magnetec dsd 412 drive. I did everything you've tried if not more trying to fix it. The conduit for the velocity Encoder wiring was grounded and the shield was grounded on one side like it should be. I started out by pulling the wiring out of the conduit, temporarily running it out of the bottom of the drive across the floor to the encoder so I knew it was far away from any other circuits that could create noise in the line. The problem went away and I'm fairly sure the noise was from the way the wiring was ran from the bottom of the drive to the top of the controller.
Posted By: NOTIME

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/25/17 07:00 PM

Do you have Wizard tool ? (laptop with Futura Software)
Posted By: Scarz3

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/27/17 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: NOTIME
Do you have Wizard tool ? (laptop with Futura Software)


Yes I do.
Posted By: john jay

Re: Swift futura problems - 06/27/17 06:53 PM

we use MG, as a short for a job that has a Motor Generator set.
Posted By: 1970

Re: Swift futura problems - 12/20/18 11:35 AM

Cant get laptop to link up with controller, error message comes up with no car number, cant enter any password to get in, does this mean the ram is lost?
Posted By: Rolly

Re: Swift futura problems - 12/20/18 01:04 PM

On any Swift job with intermittent problems, always change the tape guides on car top. They may feel ok to you but it only takes a couple thousands to cause strange faults. I think the first time you can turn them around, but I suggest new ones. That won't fix member 1970's problem but fixes a lot of strange ones. On Member 1970, you sure the laptop & cable is working properly? Can you test it on another car for login?
Posted By: UpandDown2321

Re: Swift futura problems - 12/20/18 06:28 PM

Does the car run? Is the 5V present on the SPU Link test points?
Posted By: 1970

Re: Swift futura problems - 12/27/18 09:53 PM

Sorry for the delay been pulling my hair out.... yes yes and yes..duplex did get the SPU repaired that took care of communication with laptop, car runs a few runs and gives me a 140 fault and the floor encoding is off. So for example the car is on 21 but the PI says 12, changed the CPT changed out the encoder need to try Dpp1 Dpp2 new sensors???? Its killin me......
Posted By: 1970

Re: Swift futura problems - 01/04/19 12:08 PM

Big shout out to Miltronics thank you!!
Posted By: JHessorz

Re: Swift futura problems - 01/06/19 08:45 PM

1970, Now that you have access to the swift wizard I would set a trigger for your fault and watch the frames, compare your Velocity between DPP and Encoder. I had an intermittent issue on a Swift Meridia where the car would lose position for a split second and the car would just stop or position would be completely wrong. I replaced the selector boards and checked voltage between both DPPs, car would still lose position. I eventually replaced DPP sensors, swapped Shielded pairs in case of a traveler issue and ran the car, fixed my issues. Hope this helps
Posted By: 1970

Re: Swift futura problems - 01/12/19 10:32 AM

Thank you JHessorz! I ended up changing 4 sensors MLZ PR1 PR2 PR8 and that was the fix also had to go in and change EUR parameter. Thanks to Milltronics for the help with that!
Posted By: MILTRONICS

Re: Swift futura problems - 04/19/19 05:50 PM

@1970, Glad to be of service!
Posted By: elmcannic

Re: Swift futura problems - 04/23/19 03:14 AM

This foreign poster needs to go bye bye now. Second post of this garbage I’ve seen tonight.

Please notify the admin.
Posted By: workingclass

Re: Swift futura problems - 04/23/19 09:42 PM

Newer version DPP sensors won’t go below 3v
Posted By: Smitty

Re: Swift futura problems - 05/04/19 12:02 AM

Dont worry too much about the DDP voltage. Actually the voltage adjustment is really just a duty cycle adjustment. The manual won't explain that. The higher the reading the closer you are to 5050. The bigger issue is knowing how to shift the sensors to achieve the correct phasing between DDP1 and DDP2. The hall sensors can be cheated in or out a small amount by rotating them about 1/2 turn. They look like they are in the center of the plastic sensor body, but you can make minor adjustments to them. This if done properly will give you the correct phasing to get rid of floor counting errors.
Posted By: Scarz3

Re: Swift futura problems - 11/19/19 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Scarz3
Hi all.

Been having problems with a couple of swift futura units.

Usually they run fine for anything between 1 hour to 3 days, and then they break down.
Usually getting faults 9 & 10, and usually crashes out on fault 18. Although other faults have been appearing.
Modules and contactors have been changed. DPP switches have been changed.
Drive, encoder, brake board have all been swapped with known working ones.

Also on our DPP switches we're reading between 3.0 and 3.4 volts on DPP2 depending on adjustments made and nothing seems to get it down to the correct voltage.

We just can't seem to get to the bottom of this.

Any help would be much appreciated.



We’re still having these issues!!

Intermittently the car will leave the floor in the down direction, move out of the magnet zone, stop, level back into the floor it just came from.
It will do this 3 times then time out on a 18 - DRIVE FAULT.

This can happen at any floor but always in the down direction.

Anyone have any further ideas? Many thanks
Posted By: elmcannic

Re: Swift futura problems - 11/20/19 07:51 PM

You’ve check the encoder couplings right?
If motor end shaft mount, check for loose set screws or set screw type.
If that cylindrical spring type is used, complete removal will show any break in the coiled section. This type of encoder is know for directional errors when breakage occurs.

Is front door pre opening (CSW1 bit4) Reset? If so, set it to eliminate pre opening as your trouble seems like it’s yet in the “leveling zone”..

You’re not reporting door/gate lock faults, but they may only appear when outside of MLV parameters. Could it be a lock or locks are being blipped off the clutch once drive motion is dictated and doors are initially closed, but your still under the MLV setting when this event (door lock opened) occurs?

Do you see any excessive upward roll back when down direction is commanded and brake lifts?

What “other faults” have been appearing?
Posted By: Scarz3

Re: Swift futura problems - 11/29/19 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by elmcannic
You’ve check the encoder couplings right?
If motor end shaft mount, check for loose set screws or set screw type.
If that cylindrical spring type is used, complete removal will show any break in the coiled section. This type of encoder is know for directional errors when breakage occurs.

Is front door pre opening (CSW1 bit4) Reset? If so, set it to eliminate pre opening as your trouble seems like it’s yet in the “leveling zone”..

You’re not reporting door/gate lock faults, but they may only appear when outside of MLV parameters. Could it be a lock or locks are being blipped off the clutch once drive motion is dictated and doors are initially closed, but your still under the MLV setting when this event (door lock opened) occurs?

Do you see any excessive upward roll back when down direction is commanded and brake lifts?

What “other faults” have been appearing?


Thanks for the reply.

We’ve changed the encoder with a known working one.
Door pre opening is reset.
We’ve tested the lift with the locks safely bridged out.
No excessive roll back.

I’ve noticed it likes to go out of service at the top floor more than anywhere else.

I have a video of the wizard of this fault happening.
I could send it to you somehow to see what you think?
Posted By: workingclass

Re: Swift futura problems - 11/29/19 07:30 PM

Can you post a link to your wizard frame file of the fault happening?
You will also need to include a link to the job file for that car as well
Posted By: elmcannic

Re: Swift futura problems - 12/01/19 11:45 PM

Scarz,

Sent you a PM.
Posted By: Jluff

Re: Swift futura problems - 12/02/19 12:35 PM

Check you SCRs
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