Miprom 21.... again

Once again have this Miprom giving me heck.

13 stop, 10,000lb capacity, 2:1 basement machine, HPV900

Have Kone Service Tool intergrated into a computer purchased from Kone Spares.

Background of elevator
*had issue with MSU board giving only positive DC command to drive(was fixed and ran fine)
*the issue listed below started happening(changed CPU, MSU, Relay Pilot Board, did not change)
*found bad traveling cable(replaced both, as they each had their own separate issues. ) Did not fix issue.
*Replaced cartop encoder during the traveling cable change out.


Symptoms
*from 9th landing down, while on inspection, will run for approximately 2 seconds then shut down, waits 5 seconds for reset then will run another 2 seconds. Up and down direction.

*around the 9th landing, car will start running a touch longer, then right about 10, will run nonstop as it should in up or down direction

*10th landing is a little over halfway of the entire rise.

*No faults are listed under motion excuses.

*No faults show on the drive(No overvolt, torque limit reached, etc)

*If I pull the cartop encoder off the rail, elevator will run at bottom of the hoistway without stopping every 2 seconds.



Service took does not allow me to adjust drive, as it is a magnatech and not a Baldour. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

go to magnetek drive web site you can find drive info

Dripcan, I have gone through all of the parameters and they seem to be set correctly. Do not have anything on the job stating original parameters set up though....

I'll keep digging into the drive and see what I can find.

Not sure what service tool Level you have from Kone Spares. I can't imagine them selling you a level III for a computer. Level III does everything within a specific region. Level IV works in any region and does everything. I bet those scumbags sold you a level I or II. Your better off with the World Tool for Miprom. It works!!! Anytime a Miprom stops abnormally a code is generated. Your level of tool is just not allowing you to see it. World Tool will show it.

Rolly, is there anyway to determine what level I am working with?

Check the "About" Box.

Maybe a second set of eyes to watch the Motion Excuses window while you’re driving it down. You say the trouble seems to occur at roughly the same places, hence the encoder change out. Be sure there is no movement at all at the encoder bearing at the wheels machined race. The tiniest wobble will goof with the encoder signal.

Check the parameter jog adjust. both should be 100% in drive and in miprom. Also the same problem can occur if the timer's on the P and the SB relays are whacked. One should be ahead of the other by a second or so. Can't remember which one should be in front though.

Quick update, I was able to work a little more on it. As of Sunday, I was able to find a list of parameters for the drive, that was originally setup. Everything is in order on that side.


I was unable to find anything regarding what level my tool is. I looked up the World Tool. Going to be hard to convince my customer to fork over 6k for another tool. This is my only Miprom 21. So I dont forsee my company purchasing the tool if the customer will not pay.


I am able to watch the motion excuses window while running on inspection. I am running it from the controller. I never see a motion excuse come up other the the contractor reset timer. It drops out like it loses its safety string, but everything on that has been checked good with a meter.


I need to check the bearing on the cartop encoder wheel. When I changed the encoder, I payed some attention to everything checking my tension and such, and didn't see any abnormal play. I will check that again though. It just seems it's not an encoder issue, as it acts fine in the top half of the hoistway. I am open minded and not putting on blinders. It very well could be an encoder issue. I just figured the miprom would come up with some sort of fault.


My next trip out there, its 3 1/2 hours away, I will check encoder bearing, jog adjust parameter, and the timing of the P and SB relays.

Thank you all for the info yall are providing.

Have you checked the load weighing ? Does this only happen on inspect?

Your trouble is always in the same hoist way location.
This might be a long shot, but have you checked the DBG? Might the car be leaning far enough away from the vane encoding optics that they’re not being seen at 9? Or causing the encoder roller to just skip a beat or three? The two optical readers should be set at max on the sensitivity adjustment screw. And can I asssume you’re running on a new floor table after the MSU replacement? It is unusual that the symptoms diminish beyond 9 either way.

Load weigher is not hooked up. Has been that way since we took over the job 3 years ago. So no telling how long it has not been connected.


I will check the sensitivity of the optical readers. And yes a new floor table was ran.

I will check the DBG. It is unlikely that the rails have moved dus to the jumbo rails having a bracket every 6 feet but anything is possible.

I was able to convince my customer to purchase the World Tool. Looking at the manual for it, it definitely seems better than the junky KONESpares tool. The tool actually has you select what region you are working in, KONESpares just connects without any selections.

I will be headed back out there once the world tool comes in.

Once again thank yall for the guidance.

Once you get the tool, download the miprom 21 quick reference app of your phone’s App Store. The freedom tool comes with a manual but this app makes it easier.

I've had sometime to work on this issue. I've gotten closer to a running elevator but am still having an issue.


My floor table needs to be ran, but can not due to controller not seeing the vanes. I have closely watched my vanes going through the readers and they are reading every single vane. I am a bit unsure exactly how this setup works, but what I am seeing happen with my meter, is that as I go through my voltage will swap from DC+ to DC- as it sees the vane and the holes. I have followed my voltage all the way from the car top, to the relay pilot board, through the CN6 connector, to the MSU, and it sees the voltage swap all the way to the MSU.

Doing my vane reader check, it only states

Last floor 00
Direction up or down depending on the direction traveling
Status bad. A:***


The only thing I am seeing is a voltage drop from 12.3vdc on cartop, to 11.8 at the MSU.

Bummer,

Seems this is vane reader issue is new right? Previously you did run a floor table, and there was no mention of it not being saved, so what’s changed other than tool type?
Both optic readers are set at “max”...is the car speed for inspection set to about 25fpm for the learn?
So when you inspect the car to the bottom and onto the DDL to start the floor table build, it won’t see any vane going up correct?

Yes previously was able to run a floor table, but somehow the table was lost. Im assuming with the swapping and changing of everything it was lost? That is correct that starting on my down directional limit, and all the way up to my up directional, no vanes what so ever are read using the vane reader check.

I have had ongoing issues with this elevator ever since taking it over 3 years ago.

If you swapped the CPU the floor table and all the field programmable parameters are gone. The floor table is on a removable chip I think it is at U37. or U18, depending on the age of the install. You can also read read the vanes while making a new floor table. Every floor must say good as it goes past the vane. If one says bad that is the vane you need to look at.

That's the thing, every single vane, all 12, show bad. Like it is not processing in the CPU. That's while doing the vane reader check.

I attempted to use the old dallas ram chip but one of the prongs broke off taking it out of the old board.

You have lost all the original field programmable parameters. So you need to go through and re-install them. Things like the motor name plate RPM, Pulses per revolution, motor encoder drive wheel resolution if it is friction driven, and on and on. you need to get a hold of the parameters that were originally installed by the adjuster. Then it is easy to copy them to the CPU and Drive they both have to read the same. Good Luck.

Well I guess the only good thing is that drive parameters are correct. I will start rummaging through everywhere on the jobsite and hope to obtain anything regarding the parameters.

Thanks for yalls help.

Well,
Other than Johns suggestion, there is a cartop board they call the ZAP board. IIRC, it’s the power supply for the vane reader. Typically mounted on the crosshead near the readers in a box a little bit bigger than a shoe box lid. How to check it.....?

Keep us posted on your progress.

I'd like to give an update on this.


After working a week and a half resolving issues, I think the elevator is fixed!

So I went through all the parameters. All were correct. The latest CPU board we had gotten were from Kone Spares and was loaded with the job parameters. I went ahead and ran a few spare traveling cable wires to a verified building ground and made sure car was grounded good, using a grinder to take paint off the crosshead to ensure a good ground. That still didn't fix the vane reader issue.

Started looking at my inputs and out puts on my service tool while running the car on inspection at 10fpm. Changed a few parameters on the drive to allow that, as the lowest I could go was 30fpm from the tool. Started watching my DZU and DZD inputs.... DZD wasn't showing up on the service tool. Input was high on my relay pilot board. Started to poke and prod the MSU board and had DZD come in! I found that I was able to reliably get DZU and DZD to come in if I kept pressure on the MSU. Cut a piece of soft foam to wedge inbetween MSU and CPU to keep the constant pressure I was needing. Changed parameters back to run 30fpm, did a vane reader check and it passed. Did a hoistway scan and it saved!

The problem must have been in my backplane/cardrack. Have another one on its way. But right now elevator is running and customer is happy.

Thanks all yall for your comments and suggestions.

Thanks for the update. Good find.