TK LD-03 interface

We are going to upgrade a tac20 controller to a Smartrise unit. The current unit is a IMS interface , which obviously won’t be around anymore. Does anyone know if I update the door board to a UIT unit, does it allow for either dry contact or 24vdc inputs for door open, close and nudging or do I need to just replace it with a movfr ? I looked at MCE smartraq won’t work, and eci door boards won’t work with the 20vdc motor.

Personal opinion here.... you'd be silly to not just use a GAL MOVFE linear operator. GAL is the standard pairing with smartise. And I think GALs the best operator anyhow. Its a win win.

You could use a movfr though if you wanted, it'd just be more work. The movfe should be a much more direct swap.

I did two mods where we replaced hd-85 harmonic operators on tac20s with movfr's. We retained the TK clutch and doors on that job. Instead of a connecting link from the end of the drive arm to the clutch we ordered connecting links with a bracket on the end with slots for two bolts. Took a roughly 18x24 inch piece of 11 gauge sheet steel and a ton of self tappers with lock washers and loctite to secure that plate to the raise ribs on the car door and bolted the connecting link to it. It's been years and no issues.

Don't sell yourself short. Even if your stuck in a full maintenance contract Mods are pretty much always paid for so this is your opportunity to get what you WANT to work on for the next 30 years. Yall are gonna make money either way so pick what's going to be best to service. There's a reason TK stuff is always modded to better equipment but not the other way around. I wouldn't want to work on an ld-03 with an interface board when it could've just been a GAL operator.

Your problem will be the zone restrictor. I just put in a MOVFR and removed a TK HD-LM operator. It had an ESI controller. Didn’t change the header. But did change all the interlock assembly’s and clutch . Had to use a claddagh electric door restrictor. In hind site I Would have liked to use a mechanical restrictor.

Smartrise has a door board that will work as long as the door motor is DC. The reason we went this route was due to having the single post above ground TK jack. Sucker is right in the way.

SEES and Vertical Express both sell mechanical door restrictors.

I'm not sure how the restrictor could be a problem? Any Tac-## is new enough it should've been manufactured with a restrictor of some sort already on it. I could be wrong but I don't think I've ever seen a tac-20 not have a restrictor (either on the clutch/door track or the angles bolted to the fascia/car door).

If you are mod a tke door operator n Tac 20 that you are changing to GAL door operator you are not keeping your Tac 20 clutch and restrictor. you need a GAL clutch. And the GAL door restrictor will only work on a GAL header . So now you need a separate door restrictor.

You could always buy the Otis door restrictor from unitec

Changing the operator doesn't mean the clutch is being changed by default. I've ​done two mods on tac-20s and installed a movfr operator and we retained the original TKE clutch, and restrictor. Use a connecting link that bolts to the door, sees part gdo-235, Instead of the gal clutch. Mount the operator a little more towards the return side on the cartop and bolt the door link towards the return side of the door.

Honestly tks clutches are not bad. The nice thing with a tk clutch is it doesn't rely on the connecting links angle to retract the vane on the clutch, meaning the drive arm doesn't have to actually connect to the clutch itself . If your going to go through all the trouble to replace the clutch I'd be thinking of new cab/hatch doors made for GAL clutch/pickup rollers. There's really no gain in going to a gal clutch if keeping the tk doors, they're made so differently, then you have to Jerry rig the pickup rollers onto the tk hatch doors, and possibly create issues with the depth of clutch and pickup rollers not working out. I'd just buy a new tk clutch and replace it so it's new as well, as a part of the mod.

I have one job on my route where my company (long before i came here) did exactly what your saying, they put a gal clutch and pickup rollers on tac 20 doors. It was a hack job. It's a pita to open a door, the bar from pickup rollers to hook bill is too far away from hole in the door, you need a three section extra long drop key.

Having seen it done both ways, my vote is on a gal operator and tk clutch. It's just a much cleaner and in my opinion better option.

Interesting. Your way would save money and time also. Can you email me a picture.

EElevator; I thought the movfe was discontinues now that the monxt was around? This project has an upfront center post jack, so I will have to cut and modify the MOVFR. Thats why I was hoping for an interface. The car is down so I don't want to wait for 8 weeks for an monxt, I can get MOVFRs off the shelf from Quality in Chicago of SEES in Florida.
We also have used the MOVFR on past TK/Dover mods, the nice thing about reusing the clutch and the pivot arm is you can raise the operator up to clear any car top obstruction, and just move the connection point.

Goat: Who did you talk to at Smartrise about the interface board to the TK LD-03? I've been told know by both sales and tech support. They use IPC door boards, which don't work with 20VDC according to IPC. I'd love to go this route thought.

Are you sure the motor is 20VDC? The 2 we did had 120vdc motors, and we used the D3000 board. Send me your email and I will send you the book for the D3000 door board interface.

The only way to do this is to add the 2 additional boards that the HD-LM operator came with. Turns the 6300PA boards discrete with a UIT. There was another thread about this a while back.

Indirtwetrust, with the D3000 board, all that is utilized is the DC motor. All mechanical parts as well. The ones we modded were LD-03 with 120vdc motors.

As for operators with an AC motor, I was told this

"We only support Operators with DC powered door motors. Also, Smartrise Doesn't supply the Smart Tech 2 you will have to source it. TKE Sells mod kit for AC model we can use SmartTech II, Mods to HDLM interface. "

I can't quite find the email where Smart Tech 2 talk originated. In the end, with the DC motor it was a super simple mod. Much better than trying to figure out how to make GAL door hardware and locks work on TK doors. I had that issue installing a MOVFR on an older Montgomery. That was a freaking nightmare.

Okay, I thought you were trying to keep the TK door board. You asked if you add the UIT can you use discrete 24v inputs. And ya, if you add a 6300AAR1 board with the 6300HL1 UIT to the original 6300PA board in the LD-03 you can keep the original door motor and use 24v discrete inputs.

Ghost,
Your last reply got me checking, you were correct, it was a 120VDC. The mechanic who did the survey forgot his one. I was chasing the wrong voltage. We are using the D2000 board, as we had a few in stock. Interfacing the DOL/DGL and Closedowns we will use a set of relays to change the state of the NO sensors that are there now and will add two sensors for the slow downs.

Indirtwetrust,
Thanks for that info, it will come in handy on the next one.

I wouldn't use Smartrise! Their quality and tech support sucks.

Don't really have any issues with them except there dam brake boards have bad crib death syndrome.

Just replaced a smartrise brake board, capacitor literally blew the top of itself out. Seems like they're using too small components and pushing them too hard.

It is ridiculous! @EElevator, can you share a picture of that

They have recently announced they give 5 years warranty for all these low quality and wrong designed controllers! How can they afford 5 years warranty when the drive manufacturers, soft-starter manufacturers, contactor manufacturers and even electronic board component manufacturers have maximum a couple years warranty for the parts! Then Smartrise put them together, like a wrong puzzle, and give 5 years warranty!? THEY ARE TRYING TO SELL AS MANY CONTROLLERS AS THEY CAN AND THEN CLOSE THE COMPANY IN A COUPLE YEARS. Right now they have terrible technical support, in a couple years there will be NO technical support and NO spare parts. Just my thoughts

I would recommend either the GAL MONXT or the Wittur SGV (AMD and LD-16 similar), especially if the building is prone to vandalism or heavy use.

Both of these door operators are European style, which typically have more safety features, such as cabin door interlock (no gate switch, which could get purposefully or inadvertently activated at the wrong time, and no "less reliable" door restrictor, which could become a snag hazard, in the case of the angle-iron variety, or purposefully jammed in the unlocked position by a tech, in the case of the GAL/MAC?Miami Elevator variety, or even worse jam in the locked position with dead battery, in the case of Adams HatchLatch). With interlock, door cannot be moved ajar. Also, no need for ugly sheet metal between landings on glass jobs. The clutch engages independently from the door movement, reducing a snag hazard due to misaligned doors. The doors can't be split apart at floor level causing door lock faults due to the clutch design.

In your case, I would recommend the Wittur product because it comes with a kit allowing you to retain your existing Miami Elevator hall door equipment; however you will have to replace the tracks on the cabin side and also the skate. Also, parts are available from multiple sources (KONE, TKE/Vertical Express, and Wittur) Link: https://verticalxpress.com/media/download_files/component_manuals/ld_16_udo_mod.pdf

The second choice would be the GAL MONXT. Unlike the Wittur product, you will need to rehang the doors with GAL hardware and also replace the door skate and the hall locks. This might be acceptable for just a few stops.

Flyer: https://www.gal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/GAL_MONXT.pdf
Installation: https://www.gal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/MONXT-Operator-Installation-Manual-DELTA.pdf

Whatever you do, I wouldn't recommend harmonic op. They are just too outdated and don't offer all the safety features of Euro style operators. GAL is the only company that still makes em. They need to stop, lol. Especially in today's day and age. See first paragraph to learn more. Another downside to harmonic ops is that same make and models can become self locking (operator can move the door but door can't move operator). This can cause problems during entrapment where the only way to get the door open is to climb on top and spin the infamous wheels. This can be dangerous is you have long floor runs (i.e. train stations). With linear operators, they are never self-locking. They can be easily opened from the floor or cab top. The amount of force needed is always uniform throughout the entire door cycle, to manually open the door. Plus, if the power is cut, the clutch is spring-loaded. If elevator is at floor during an entrapment, all that needs to be done from the outside is cut the juice and then manually open the door (no key or lock picking). If door arm bolts get loose or detached, they could fall on someone. With a belt operator, if the belt breaks, it will just loose traction and stop. Another bad thing is when they are used on glass door installs (propped up on pedestals. This creates trip hazards for workers and adds installation costs for taller hoistway.

If you really wanna see how dangerous a gate sw is. Check out this vid. Be glad it was equipped with DLM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEOkZDBCDiw

I think I attached the photo..