Kone V3F16L reliability

I've repaired a few of these Kone V3F16L drives.
Usually the problem is a blown IGBT module, type BSM50GP120.
When this fails it generally takes with it a bunch of diodes and resistors plus the occasional opto-coupler and capacitor. The high voltage inside the IGBT module shorts to one or more of the the insulated gates.
The last repair lasted about 6 weeks.
Has anyone got any idea why these drives fail like this?
Could it be something to do with the pair of contactors carrying the motor feeds, an unbalanced 3 phase supply or just an under-rated drive for the particular lift? The one in question is in a theatre and could get very hot with a lot of continuous use...

Allan,
V3F16L is not reliable. It has short life span, ranging 1 - 4 years, or it even burnt when tester commission the lift.

hey allan,could you tell me the exact parts that you change on this drive,because i have change a couple of these parts and it still doesnt work,i change the igbt and diodes,could you specify which resistor and capacitor,i have about 4 of these drives out

Does anybody know how to fix the v3f16l?
I have errors 0026 and 0103.
Which parts are usually burnt?

bsm50gp120 Transistor

diodes d37,d23-d30,d328,d329

u10,u11,u12 opto couplers

r63,r64,r65 resistors

buy these at mouser electronics,let me know what happen

Thank you for you answer denzelevator79!
The last question: Do you have an electronic schematic of v3f16l ?

My bms50gp120 is burnt.

I need the information what is the type of those diodes,need catalog names.

diodes d37,d23-d30,d328,d329
and also
d33 (u44)
d27, d24 (V38)

What u44 and V38 means?

Greatings from Poland

hi there, if you find any schematic, please send it to me. I've been faced with the same problem.
sorena1717@yahoo.com

many thanks

I have 2 for spares i just posted for sale here

Hello
I think IGBTs blows, because of overvoltage tips, which capacitors C52, C53 and C54 should absorb. The consequence is that the collector voltage exceeds the gate and closes over some of the diodes D36, D37 and D38, and then through a common diode D328 closes the circuit to the emitter of IGBT's. Attached is a scheme of excitation 3 IGBTs whose emitters are connected to the negative pole of the DC link. I marked with yellow marker above circuit. It is necessary to replace the capacitors C52 - C54, then one of the IGBT diode D36 - D38 (BYG 22D) and always diode D328. For diode D328 can not find catalog information. Her label is F AJ14 LT, I found on another regulator F AK23 LT. Please if anyone has another label diode D328 to let me know.

Best regard

if attachment doesn't work, here is link to image of the schematic:

Hello people,
can anyone answer according to next:
I have Kone drive V3F16L type KM769900G05 REV 2.2 which burned.Can I replace it with V3F16L type KM769900G01 REV 1.52,can someone explain difference between these two types, or give some advice about it?

Hi, 769900G05 IS 12A module & 769900G01 is 14A. if G05 has been burnt out there is no problem to replace with G01 but you can not replace G01 with G05.

sorena1717,- Thank you,
You mean that for control panel of elevator is no problem if I put G01 instade of G05,- electronic and complet system of elevator will be working properly.

hello i changed the IGBT BSM50GP120 and the diode D36 and D38 and D328 the capacitors C52 C54
V3F led is on but the elevator are high vibration's
the general fault code is 0108 with sub code 2009 and 3001
have anione ideea what is the problem best regardes

Hi Brada,

The G01 unit is usually found on the larger Monos, 1000 KG 13 person, I take it you've got a smaller lift? And I take it you can access all the Parameters in the Map panel, if not you will need a KNX card fitted to the LCE, don't forget to do a shaft setup and setup LWD device, you can only do this if you can access all the parameters.

Dave

hello have anyone ideea what kind of diode is D328 FAJ14LT or a similar code

Hi,

I've been looking for the very same thing, & the only thing I can find is SMAJ14 400W SURFACE MOUNT TRANSIENT VOLTAGE SUPPRESSOR, they also do a bidirectional one too so check, I don't think it is a bidirectional you want as it has the Cathode stripe on the one on the V3F16 I do believe, I'm currently looking at some at the moment, it always seems to be the same two transistors in the IGBT unit that blow?? I will keep the forum posted.

Dave


See if this link works its the data sheet, or just type SMAJ14 into search engine

http://www.littelfuse.com/products/tvs-diodes/surface-mount/smaj/~/media/Files/Littelfuse/Technical%20Resources/Documents/Data%20Sheets/Littelfuse_TVS%20Diode_SMAJ.pdf

HI DMHUGHES Thank you for your answer think you should try with this type of diode TOMORROW AS could try to change and to try them on

I'm afraid time is not on my side, I want to crack this as soon as possible, I used to work for Kone, I know they aren't cheap, I've been to a funeral today but I will be on it at the weekend, I will crack the V3F16L problem I don't like to be beaten, if it can fail it can be fixed, that's the law, after all it is only a circuit board I've designed them & fixed the best of them, watch this space LoL.

Dave

Found another variation to D328/329 for 328 I've got a BUH C416 & 329 EE C418 both are by ST electronics, but can't find any info even on ST website, I may have to ring them.

Dave

hey, sorry for delay,
that's right. there is nothing relevant to control pannel.
be sure & do it.

thanks

Try KDL16 drive + Pulse Generator.
It works. Less troubleshooting, less headaches.
Just a few connectors alteration needed.

Hello. I identified all component (D328,U9,D38,etc ) with one exception: D22(same D25) marking V3Y . I need a help please!

Identifying the surface mounted parts on the main circuit board can be tricky if one does not have a reference book.
As the parts are arranged in two sets of three and usually only one set of parts, in each of the two sets, blows up a good solution is to use a scrap board for parts.
However, the small parts are all obtainable from Farnell for example.
Typically:
U10 is a J312 opto coupler; Farnell part 1085048
D17 = BYG22D; Farnell part 1021749
D32 = "YW" or MMSZ5V1; Farnell part 1431291
D23 = "V3V" or MMSZ7V5;Farnell part 1431295 but no longer stocked
D26 = D23
D328 = BUHC312 = SMBJ18A an 18V TVS diode; Farnell part 9843990
R64 12 ohm

The coding of the parts may vary slightly depending on the particular maker.

Sometimes one or more of the 220 ohm resistors on the back of the board fails and, as a matter of course, change the 47uF caps associated with a blown up set of diodes, although these could be OK.
I have an idea that many faults originate at the three relays, for example if a pair of contacts welds together.
Remove the plastic lid from the IGBT module and you can see what has happened.

i have the same problem i repaired all those part but it give 26 i cant access the parameter of inverter,please can you tell which part has the problem, this problem is with G02. the diode you ask you can replace it with mvc541

Hi all I just Join and I find very interesting topics, even in Italy many v3f16l break, faults and 0103 0102dovuti to problems of noise in the power supply, and the guides are not lubricated well, at the start goes into protection, excuse my English for beginner, cordial greetings to all, and good work onit53

We've put a set of roller guides in one. Amazingly better ride quality, leveling accuracy and nuisance 61u/n cigar switch faults

hello

0026 and 103 generally A2 board is damaged 。
Recommended replacement KDL16。

hello
the device under investigation failed because of a failure in the
IGBT driver circuit together with failures in the following components: U17, D37, D36, D328,U11, U2, D24 in MCDR board&#12290.

good

I am told poor ventilation of machine room space can be a contributing factor as well as lack of rail lube as already mentioned.

There is a repair facility that also sells refurbished drives. They are based in the UK but have have a U.S. distributer. We used them for a replacement drive and it worked fine. Check out elevator-drives.com

The v3f16L is no longer avalable. There is a kdl16 conversion kit that is a snap to install. Heaps better runner and uses an encoder instead of the tacho. Do your self a favor and upgrade or you will be forever repairing v3f16L.

I totally agree with you exkoneinsider, I've fit a few, a bit more of a fiddle to fit, but I would go as far as to say, I got a much better ride when setup too. Ive had to many bad experiences with The repaired V3F16L aswel!

Dave

i have changed the capacitor and the mos part of circuit and it work just for some hours and explode, maybe it is programmed to work for just some years

hello all,
in fact after 23 igbt blown i realized where is their problem,
i can repair them with warranty minimal 5 year and with a good price, if someone is interested can contact me at ediengineer111@gmail.com

so it is not necessary to spend that much money for kdl, they can be modified to be as strong as kdl

Thanks Edi! since you repaired my v3f16l it still work very fine.
u saved me a lot of money,

hello
All the inverter i repaired they are working fine, so the best choice is to repair them, because they are very strong inverter except this blow problem which i have made an modification to make them last at least 10 year after the repair, i have many time dealing with many kinds of inverter so i know very well their problems.
best regards

heloo,
i am using kene v3f16l drive. 0021 f-3 fault is showing. pls help me to short out the issue.

Hi sumanlift,

21 is a safety fault, f3 is just fault No 3, what is f1 & f2 fault & is this the only problem you have, 21 fault will also appear when you are on RDF

Dave

I don't buy the dry guide theory as I have replaced loads of drives which have all worked trouble-free after replacement without lubricating guides.
Anyone who has experienced the quality of Kone guide installations (especially Monospace models) will know that there is usually so many errors in the DBG's that oil wouldn't help anyway.
Kone drives are just poorly designed and manufactured (I believe most of them are made in China these days).

Lol, I completely agree, Kone know they are a bad drive, that's why we have KDL now, & I can't understand how they can get the guides so wrong even a 2 floor job looks like a dogs leg! Whatever happened to plumbing & using the pointers to bone the guides? Probably to time consuming in today's bonus chasing culture!

Dave

I hear that Kone are now experiencing problems with their new KDL drives both KDL16 and KDL 32.

I knew a hero that would pull rails to the car frame on two stops...I am surprised you are surprised hahah....

Once was on a job installing lifts in new build high rise buildings where all the lift cars were dropped into the hoistways fully assembled before the roofs were put on. One numbskull still managed to get it wrong and ended up with one lift car being dropped into the hole back to front. Luckily it was spotted before the builders put the roof on.

Hello.
V3F16L out of order.I repaired it, but when it is installed on the elevator produces an error 026.
Prompt in what may be the problem?

Is no one has experience of successful repair?

A mod.

Hi, they are a problem to repair, depends what you think you've done to repair it, no doubt you changed the igbt module, but it usually takes some other supporting components out with it, problem is you've got to put it back on the lift to check, if you don't have a very expensive test rig, change it for the KDL16 a vast improvement, but as I read more threads not 100% I've changed many and you can tell the difference instantly, I've had too many bad experiences with repaired ones,

Good luck

Dave

Hi.
I replaced all the faulty components, but the elevator still gives error 26. Does anybody have any documentation or V3F16L connector pinout XL1

hi i am intrested to buy v3f16l out of service my e mail is oafa2002@yahoo.com

Hi i sell V3F16L with 1300 E
My e mail is oafa2002@yahoo.com

Hi all.

I have a similar problem as akirra. In my V3F16L was broken contactor 201:1, which I mentioned. besides all the other components are in working order, and the inverter does not work.

It seems to me that the problem lies in the bones on the plate DCBN, bones CLD D9, D13 CLD, CLD D33 and either need to be reprogrammed, or do a workaround. Real seems to be doing work around, but if someone is able to tell me how to do it?


Sometimes just replace the resistor or varistor and the inverter continues to operate, but sometimes you have to reprogram the bone.

Help please

I solved this problem, both drives work. Thank you all responded.

Lasski71/
What exactly happened to the contactor 201:1?

Has anyone figured out the problem with the 0026 and 0103 faults on the v3f16l ? I have one I just replaced and I would like to fix the broken one. All I keep reading is a bad igbt module. Any other points I should look at ? Any help is appreciated .

026 - it's a mistake drive, 103-which means?

0103 fault is Braking Resistor damaged. 0026 is just letting you know that the drive has reported a fault.

The brake resistors are good it appears to be in the drive internally . Can't figure it out.

Hi,

The braking resistor gets controlled on one of the internal transistors of the igbt, this fault gets thrown up nearly every time they go, I'm afraid you are gonna have to replace or send for repair, me personally I would put a KDL on, you will notice the difference straight away, good luck.
Where abouts are you based?
Dave

Hello everyone. Brought another drive V3F16L for demolition and in connection with this question appeared. In this module igbt died shoulder U. But for what reasons they do fail, prompt.

V3f16l reability for 1300 E
Oafa2002@yahoo.com

hello
All the inverter i repaired they are working fine, so the best choice is to repair them, because they are very strong inverter except this blow problem which i have made an modification to make them last at least 10 year after the repair, i have many time dealing with many kinds of inverter so i know very well their problems. and i can offer very good price
my email ediengineer111@gmail.com
best regards

I repair drive V3F16L Kone, professionally, warranty 12 months, lowest market price.
I am engineer electronics, constructor, with 30 years experience.
So, two years ago, I have made entirely schematic for this drive. After researching I know what is problem. Then I have made "Test Unit" for completely testing drive.
My service include defecting and preventing service.
All the inverter I have repaired they are working fine over 1.5 year.
Best choice is to repair them per lowest price.
If someone is interested can contact me at :
phenix0507@yahoo.com

Best regards.

"ELBOR"
Design, production and
service electronics equipment.

Serbia

Hello I apologize for my English ! I tried to repair a v3f16l I replaced all the components burned IGBT diode d 328 d329 d23 d26 c24 c25 d38 u11 u15 but it does not work I can not access the parameters 6 c ' is someone I can' help thanks

Hello ,
I am repairing V3F16L drivers with two years warranty.
Repair price is very suitable than buying a new driver.
You can contact with me from
mehmetokyar@mynet.com

Hello gbr,
Please contact me at:
phenix0507@yahoo.com

I can not download shema.jpg. Please send me it on e-mail - melnikkp@gmail.com

Can someone repost this Shema.jpg ?

В Новосибирске могу отремонтировать ваш частотник. unit2000@inbox.ru

V Novosibirske mogu otremontirovat vash chastotnik. unit2000@inbox.ru

Hello all.

I have a problem with the emergence in an elevator KONE. Once they enter the emergency elevator, the display shows an arrow, the elevator just tends to move, and than the emergence directly disconnected. Can any of you help me and tell me what the problem is?
My email is: electronicsolution025@gmail.com

Best Regards

Hello people, so lets repair all the inverter KONE with a GOOD PRICE and COMPETITIVE in the market, with more than 5 years of warranty.
I have a 20 year experience with this type of inverter, and i know all the problems that this inverter must have.
All the inverter I have repaired they are working fine over 5 years. Best choice is to repair them per lowest price.
If anyone will be interested, may contact me at: electronicsolution025@gmail.com

Best Regards

I have a mistake 0105 2006 whoever says what the problem is and where to look?

Hello! The schematic is not downloaded. Help, please, who has it - send an e-mail to artkoz@yandex.ru
Thanks in advance!

Hi dear
I have replaced all items, but when I get started with error 0105/0102
Capacitance of power capacitors has not changed, is there a need for replacement?
400V/470mF

please guide me
Thank

We should all pay homage to Kone for creating a new cottage industry, and keeping the elevator workforce healthy, and so busy. If it wasn't for Kone engineers many people would be looking for jobs.

Hi
Can you help me?

Hi guys
Anyone know what is the problem in inverter of V3F16L?

Hi
Can you help me?

hello SS4engineer, yes i can help you. tell me

hello, writte to me at electronicsolution025@gmail.com

Hello people, so lets repair all the inverter KONE with a GOOD PRICE and COMPETITIVE in the market, with more than 5 years of warranty.
I have a 20 year experience with this type of inverter, and i know all the problems that this inverter must have.
All the inverter I have repaired they are working fine over 5 years. Best choice is to repair them per lowest price.
If anyone will be interested, may contact me at: electronicsolution025@gmail.com

Best Regards

Hi all ! I have v3f16l right now on my table, a lot of componente and IGBT module have burnt. D12 diode almost completely disappeared, can you please tell me the marking code of it?

hello Alexei, please writte to me at email, i will help you from there

SS4engineer tell me

Hello people, so lets repair all the inverter KONE in HOLLAND, GERMANY, FRANCE, BELGIUM, with a GOOD PRICE and COMPETITIVE in the market, with more than 5 years of warranty.
I have a 50 year experience with this type of inverter, and i know all the problems that this inverter must have.
All the inverter I have repaired they are working fine over 5 years. Best choice is to repair them per lowest price.
If anyone will be interested, may contact me at: electronicsolution025@gmail.com

Best Regards

50 years experience on an inverter? I didn't realise they were being used in the 1970s! 😂

hahah..my mistake i wanted to writte 20 years

Hello people, so lets repair all the inverter KONE in HOLLAND, GERMANY, FRANCE, BELGIUM, with a GOOD PRICE and COMPETITIVE in the market, with more than 5 years of warranty.
I have a 20 year experience with this type of inverter, and i know all the problems that this inverter must have.
All the inverter I have repaired they are working fine over 5 years. Best choice is to repair them per lowest price.
If anyone will be interested, may contact me at: electronicsolution025@gmail.com

Best Regards