Prints for a Rotary Elevator installed in early 50

I am looking for some prints and assistance in restoring a Rotary 2 stop elevator located in a historic building in Houston, Texas. Elevator would have been installed in the early 50's. Controls are all relays.

Please tell us what historical value the controls have?

When was the building built? 1950s?

I can't imagine Houstons historical society would mandate the controls of the elevator would be placed above the advancements in safety to the public using this elevator...

You posted you are the building manager in your profile. I imagine you make difficult decisions on a regular basis. This one should be an easy decision to make. Here is what I see are your choices;

1) Put good money into old, out date and worn out 60+ year old equipment.

2) Dig a little deeper into the pocket(s) of the building owner(s) and modernize your equipment. Help ensure the safety of the people who are using the elevator.

When you modernize your equipment you will get a warrenty. At the end of the warrenty period look into a service contract.

Best of luck...

Happy Holidays All,

You didn't mention if the Rotary is a passenger of freight. A freight in a fat rendering plant is one thing. A little Ole 2 stop hydro is another.

Is the elevator running with a current permit?

Is a qualified Union Elevator company maintaining the equipment?

JKH gave you some pretty good advice for an elevator manufactured by some obscure, long gone elevator company that built their elevators in the barn next to the stall where the Barn Cat had her last litter of kittens.

But...........This is a Rotary, there are still hundreds or maybe even thousands of these things still safely hauling passengers and freight every day. Why? because they are simple.

The rub here as it is with all older hydraulic elevators is the underground plumbing and the valve. Underground plumbing corrodes and valves wear out. When that happens leaks start that can lead to unsafe conditions. Life threatening accidents are rare but do happen.

The other option is: Install a new life time jack along with a new valve. or better a new pump unit. Completely service the unit and replace worn parts. Note here: Don't let them tell you parts are no longer available.

One reason for that is, Rotary didn't manufacture most of their electrical components (with the exception of some door equipment which is available thru elevator parts suppliers.) but purchased them from suppliers that are still in business.

Complete Modernization would be great. Unless generic equipment is used, when completed you will have a brand new elevator that will be obsolete in about week, only the company that put it in can service it properly and therefore it costs an arm and a leg for a service contract. Also, requires a 400 page manual and various hand held electronic devices with little blinky lights and numbers to keep it running.

The bottom line here is: Before you do anything you have to get to local elevator inspector involved. He's the guy that will tell you what can or can't be done.

OK, Guys...not preaching to the choir here. Doin this tongue in cheek. As you guys know I supply information and diagrams. Gotta tell ya.......the stuff that come across my desk is unbelievable. In most cases it's comprehensive and informing. But,hundreds of pages just for a little hydro. The manuals are updated almost weekly and when they get really thick. The companies either add .something or change the name of the product line.

Please work safe you guys so you can enjoy the holidays to come.

Jim

The elevator is located in a church built in 1926. Architect was Alfred Finn who also designed the San Jacinto Monument in southeast Houston. The elevator was retrofitted sometime in the early 50's. No historical values for the controls. The hydraulics were replaced at some point (I believe in the early 2000's but not certain). The story is we are a small congregation who has limited funds. We are currently unable to use our auditorium because we have a few wheelchair bound members who require the elevator to access the auditorium.

The elevator was functioning until approximately 2 years ago. We had a service contract but due to tight budget, had to discontinue their service.

When the elevator stopped working, we called them out and after 4 hours and $1000, said they didn't think they could sort out the problem so we put a halt on the effort. We are now in a position that with some growth in the congregation, we need to move back into the auditorium.

Current issue is that when a call button is pushed, several of the relays latch but no executive action is taken ie, with the car on the first floor and the first floor call is pushed, the doors do no open. I can activate the door by manually closing the dc contact which cycles through the door open, door close sequence and the relays unlatch.. Also, if the car is on the 2nd floor and the first floor call is pushed, again, several relays latch but no executive action taken.

Thanks for the response.

It's a passenger lift.

The operating permit has expired because the elevator stopped working so we let the permit lapse.

We had a qualified Union Elevator Company servicing the elevator but the contract is not in place at the present time. We had them out about a year ago to have a look but after a couple of hours and $1000, they were unable to solve the issue ( which I described in the previous post) so we decided to put the work on hold.

The original hydraulics were replaced at some point.

Also FYI, we were in discussions with the city re grandfathering certain current requirements. The discussion was also placed on hold when the elevator quit working.

I believe that someone with knowledge of how the system works and the drawings will be able to correct the issue so that is actually what I am looking for.

Dr Wiggin,
Now that I understand why you are choosing to repair your elevator. I would like to help you. Please send me your contact information in a PM (Private Message). You will find the "private message" in "my stuff" at the top of this page. I have many that we service and I have a soft spot for churches.

Jim has been a great resource for many in need of prints and manuals. I'm sure between the three of us we can find a way for you to get the information needed.

Thanks JKH,

The part that rubs is they couldn't fix it after a couple of hours. I know I have prints. if we can nail down a little closer install date. Let me know and I'll send you a set.

Based on Dr Wiggins note just sound like something in the running circuit is just plain dirty or some of the P&B relays have hammered thru the anti residual part of the the old P & B relays.

Happy Holidays,

Jim

Jim - I can't find any info on an exact date when the elevator was installed but I believe it was in the early 50's. Code data plate shows it to have been installed under ASME17.1 - 1930 if that helps. Plate on unit says Rotary Power Unit Model K10, Serial No E7348. I alsoe taken some pictures of the panel if that will help. Let me know if you need any more info.

I was in working on the elevator today. I removed all the relays, cleaned all the contacts and reinstalled. No change to operation was noted.

Here's what I found when I ran some tests -

With the car on the 1st floor, when the 1st floor call button was pressed, relays 1C, A and C latched. I then manually engaged the DO relay (which stayed latched). The door opened, paused and then closed and all the relays reset.

Car still on 1st floor, pressed the 2nd floor call button. Relays 2C, A, C and UA latched but nothing else happened. Had to shut-off the power to clear the relays.

Moved car to 2nd floor by manually activating the motor relay. When the car arrived on the 2nd floor, the relay disengaged (short of the stop). Re-engaged relay and car moved to correct location and disengaged so now car is on location on 2nd floor.

I pressed the 2nd floor call button and 2C, A and C latched. I then manually engaged DO which latched and the door opened, closed and the relays reset.

I then pressed the 1st floor call and relays 1C, A, C and UA latched. Again nothing else happened and I had to turn off the power to get the relays to reset.

There must be a permissive somewhere that is locking up the system.

Dave

I've worked several of these units, although infrequently, 4hrs seems like enough time to make some headway. A close set of prints should be more than enough to get the ball rolling. If I were in your position I'd wait for the prints and then find someone familiar with the unit. The tinkering around could easily end up creating more issues especially with the age of the relays and wiring. A lot of the rotary units I've worked on had heavily damaged wires near or around the door resistors, residual magnetism on the p&b's, bad timers etc...possibilities are endless. Wish you the best of luck, but a decent set of prints in the hands of someone experienced is the best route IMO.

Couldn't agree with you more on the prints. Unfortunately, I am not having much success in finding some prints but am hopeful that some prints will be sourced . My elevator service company tried to find some prints but were also unable to find any. They came up with a generic set which were of no use to them in finding the issue. So that leaves me in a position to do what I can to get the issue resolved. I am a fairly good tinkerer and have managed to clean up all the contacts on the relays and also repaired a couple of switches on the door mechanism. I have also tested the three timers and they are working correctly.

Will have to dig through some old stuff but there is a remote possibility something is in the attic. Reminds me of a story where a manager gave a mechanic a set of prints on an old Otis that were for another job. The mechanic worked for a few hours and finally gave up. The manager upset said: "well I got you a set of prints that were close". To which the mechanic whipped right back "well I almost fixed it".

I'll be near a two landing mid 50's build tomorrow, might take a look at the prints or at least take a few pictures...From what I remember the prints have seen better days condition-wise. They are about on par with the dead sea scrolls.

Rotary Oildraulic? No Boards right? Dover merged or bought at some point.

Sorry, nothing in the attic..

Thanks for looking. A getting some new prints made so should be off and running soon.

I'm building a database of manuals and prints so if you don't mind I would love a digital copy so I can continue to help myself and others that need it.

Christycollett is working on the prints. We are in the final stages of having them completed. Will send you a copy when I get them. Have actually found my issue by using the preliminary set he sent me. Problem was with a door closed safety switch on the second floor. Now on to recertification and licensing.

DRW

i have rotary prints 1950s vintage

- Ace

Can I get a copy of the oldest rotary oildraulic prints you have? Have one in an old bank, 2 stop, almost exactly the issue mentioned here... please and thank u. -reese

I have a couple of Rotary prints as well, Let me know if you might need. And how to post a document, i don't see how to insert a doc and copy/paste doesn't seem to work.

Nyguy