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Another Death

Posted By: danzeitz

Another Death - 12/15/11 12:34 AM

Another person killed today in New York!!!! As a women stepped onto the elevator at her work the car ran up with her in the opening, crushing her to death. Another tragedy, another instance of an elevator moving with the doors open. This is the nightmare of every competent elevator professional. When will unintended movement protection devices be mandated? When will we, as elevator professionals, speak out and declair that most of these accidents could be avoided by the use of existing technology. I am the inventor of the Time out Jumper, a device that has been available to our industry for over two years that would end jumper left behind accidents. Sadly my device has been ignored by the vast majority of our industry. Not even a mention as an option in the jumper safety programs that are mandatory yearly safety topics! And at the same time the manufacturers of elevator controllers strive to produce a jumperless product because they fully understand how dangerous misused or forgotten jumpers can be. I applaued their efforts, but with the vast majority of elevators being jumper dependant, the jumper will be part of every techicians kit for years to come. Speak out! Teach the new guys the safe way! Live to collect your pention! Protect the public!
Posted By: Vic

Re: Another Death - 12/15/11 01:06 AM

Amen, brother!
Kudos to you for inventing the time-out jumper. Did you sell the idea, or are you marketing them yourself? Might wanna write to Debra Tudor in Ca, head of the State Elevator Unit.

If rope grippers and door restrictors were made retroactive to existing installations, many lives could be saved.
Posted By: halfpick

Re: Another Death - 12/15/11 01:45 AM

You guy's don't even know the facts of the accident. It just happened! You already assume a jumper was left on a controller. I will say, we most likely will never know the TRUE cause! I agree this is BAD for our trade....Does anyone know the type of controls in this building! Original or Mod!
Posted By: selfproclaimed

Re: Another Death - 12/15/11 02:15 AM

Swift controller/geerless machine
And lets not jump to any conclusions about jumpers.
It's a sad and unfortunate accident that is being investigated.
Posted By: halfpick

Re: Another Death - 12/15/11 02:22 AM

I agree selfproclaimed....
Posted By: itsallgood

Re: Another Death - 12/15/11 02:28 AM

I completely agree. I think code should require door lock monitoring on all existing equipment as well as new. Anytime car door is on open limit, door lock and gate circuit should be out. If not, (and car is not on inspection) shut down car ! This is such an easy and cheap circuit to add to older units that don't already have it. It wouldn't address all scenarios, but would go a long way.
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 12/15/11 02:40 AM

Please reread my post I do not know how this accident occured and agree most of the time we will never learn the truth. My main point is that if unintended motion protection was mandated these accidents would stop. If they were caused by jumpers-- loss of traction or broken drive machine. The other point I was trying to make is the fact that safety devices like my jumper are not even being taught as an added option to jumper safety! I teamed up with Wurtec to get this product to market to help prevent injury and death.
Posted By: halfpick

Re: Another Death - 12/16/11 04:01 AM

Sorry Dan, I guess I read into your post alittle. I'm personally woundn't use the time-out jumper. I even feel the 4" restrictor causes more problems than good. I do think the ascending car protection is long overdue...Just my opinion!
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 12/16/11 12:23 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/nyregi...-says.html?_r=1

please look at this
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 12/16/11 12:32 PM

I do not understand why a safety improvement would be undesirable. A jumper that times out is obviosly safer than one that does not.
Posted By: halfpick

Re: Another Death - 12/16/11 08:14 PM

They still have no idea what the cause was? Your assuming a jumper. If a jumper is left on a control for even 1 seconds with car in service it can kill someone depending on what is jumped. And if it were the doorlocks (2) jumpers may have had to be used. Gaining control of the unit is the protocol and I would think never jumping out doorlocks while car is in automatic or full service! If you just put a car back into service? And the time-out jumper was programmed for 15 minutes....If you get killed on that unit 10 minutes later? Are you any less dead!Have you met ever possible safety protocol.The answer is NO! You left the time-out jumper on. Procedures are what keep you safe not thinking your covered because your using a timed out jumper. You are right in this case it may have prevented a death...I agree.
Posted By: halfpick

Re: Another Death - 12/16/11 08:32 PM

Either way, I feel very sorry for the the lady and her family. Can't imagine how the mechanic is feeling if it was human error. A very sad situation!
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 12/16/11 10:51 PM

Let me say again I do not know what caused this accident. And i agree that proper proceadures are the only way to prevent accidents. The intent of the Time Out Jumper is not to bypass any current training or safety protacol but to add one more level of protection for the public and mechanics who work on elevators. When you have spent 4 years and blood sweat and tears to help protect the public and my brothers in our trade to see anyone hurt is personal to me. And considering another man may be sentenced to 25 years in jail for the misuse of a jumper I will do my best to help fellow elevator men to be protected from what could be an honest mistake. Anyone who has been in a machine room at 4AM with sick kids at home and another call to go can make a mistake. If I can help one family I will try.
Posted By: VerticalTechNY

Re: Another Death - 12/17/11 02:01 AM

Funny how the IUEC pushes for a license and mentions how only Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo require elevator men to have a license. That in itself is a joke. Every single mechanic and helper were grandfathered in and handed licenses in Syracuse, The only people who take the actual test are the people who hold installers licenses, which someone in the company must hold in order to do work in Syracuse. Yes, I hold an installers license, and while at TKE, every employee worked under my license. Wonder what kind of lawsuit I was looking at if some grandfathered idiot at TKE killed someone while working under my license? Just another way for the IUEC to try to keep independent non-union companies out. Try actually maintaining elevators and doing quality work, maybe that will help. Bet this post lasts 5 minutes.
Posted By: selfproclaimed

Re: Another Death - 12/17/11 02:52 PM

Do you think that the push for licensed elevator mechanics would push out the independants?

Why?

Anyone can take the test. If you are knowledgeable in the elevator field you'll pass. I too hold an installers license but check the work of others working under my license. Also, everyone must be licensed to work... passed the state test.

Having licensed elevator mechanics and annual testing done correctly can only improve the safety of the riding public and would be a giant step in the right direction.

Monthly safety meetings are also a big plus. They constantly remind us of how critical our jobs are and how dangerous they can be if the correct procedures are not followed.

I don't see your point about how the IUEC trying to pass this safety bill is an attempt to push out the independants. It is to put everyone, union or non union on the same page when it comes to safety and knowledge.The grandfathering of mechanics and helpers was probably done based upon experience and years in the business but was a start. Anyone new coming into the field won't be handed a license, they would have to be tested.

Quality work in maintaining elevators is the top priority. We must all work safe and stay focused.Don't worry about the supervisors asking when you're going to be finished. Do the job correctly and safely then move on.Too many times we are pushed to move faster and thats the problem.
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 12/17/11 03:00 PM

VerticalTechNY well bet lost! I think a union card in your pocket doesnt make anyone a better mechanic than someone without. I aslo think that the ability to pass a test doesn't make a person qualified to work on public transportation either. I wouldnt want a surgeon with only book experience cutting on me. It takes years of school and traing by competent mechanics, union or non-union, to be qualified to be on your own.

That being said, I would like to clear up the intent of the Timeout Jumper. It is to end one very specific type of problem. A jumper left behind, forgotten for whatever reason. The Timeout Jumper is just as dangerous as any other jumper while the circuit is jumped out. AND all current jumper safety practices HAVE to remain. Now if a stanard jumper is left behind the safety circuit will remain defeated until a person finds it and removes it, which could be days, weeks or months. But with the Time Out Jumper the safety circuit will return as designed when the programmed time expires, even though the actual jumper is still attached. Currently, if a jumper is found there is no way to know the intent of the person who left it behind. If the Time Out Jumper is mandated in our business any time a regular jumper is found defeating safety circuits it should be immediate dismissal. If injury or death occured the full force of the law should be brought upon that person. I hope this clears up the intent of my earlier posts. Work safe.
Posted By: halfpick

Re: Another Death - 12/17/11 04:26 PM

I can feel your intent Dan. And it's hard to argue safety in our industry. The majors may soon be calling since this accident and the one in Southern California are brought to national attention. It's funny to read the posts about the accident in NY and see how unfamiliar people are with our business and what the units will and won't do. We talk so much in this thread about safety, yet the major companies want less service and more SRM,REM or what ever remote monitoring device can be used. Good Luck with your product, the phone maybe ringing soon.
Posted By: uppo72

Re: Another Death - 12/18/11 01:08 AM

i personally like the idea of a timeout jumper. many factors can make a mechanic forget they have applied 1, with pressure from a stuck with passenger call to supervisor and building manager pressure. having said that this is where we mechanics have to be assertive and say no we have not finished and when im done i will let you know.also under no circumstance should you short both locks when alone on site no matter what pressure your under. this should only be done via maintenace speed and with your mate on the level of the lift as you would when you have to kick the lift below or above floor levels. this is something that when we had licenses(here in melbourne aus wwe have been deregulated ie no licenses to new mechanic after about '95') that was drummed into us. just on licenses im surprised you guys havent got these as with the level of code oversight i would've thought this would be standard.otis also used to do tool box talks just to remind procedures including these(prob still do).
Posted By: GreenPants

Re: Another Death - 12/18/11 07:30 PM

i thought the best idea out was the safety string test plugs on the otis gem's. keep the jumpers in the bag. for those that haven't seen this its a plug that is in the normal position, then if you needed to jump out the pit circuit you would put the controller on inspection and remove the plug and plug it into the pit or car or limits position and run the car. the car would only go back into service with the plug in the normal position.
Posted By: uppo72

Re: Another Death - 12/19/11 04:57 AM

i had left otis by then but from what ive heard they are good. but you have a mix of units so you still need shorts. maybe another way also is to have a sign fixed to the inside of the motorroom door that you can switch saying 'attn short attached to lift' or something similar to remind the tech.
Posted By: Smitty

Re: Another Death - 12/23/11 09:14 PM

I worked for Delta which was an Otis subsidiary company. We had Otis's safety policy. I did think SOME of the ideas worked well in most cases.I also found some of their policies could leave new mechanics with a false sense of security especially when servicing older equipment.
Personally I never use jumpers for troubleshooting. I am a field adjuster with 30 yrs in the trade. I may use a couple jumpers during a full load test, mostly for things like ETS and terminal slowdown tests but that is it. I find the use of a meter has always negated the need for jumpers. If I need to run a car out of the pit or overhead, I may use a wire for the 2 or three seconds needed AFTER I personally check the car. Obviously things like Otis safety jumper tags are needed on mod and new construction start-up procedures but once that car is in Automatic, jumpers should not be used. If you need to bypass a non-safety related circuit to allow the unit to run pending a part, then it should be hard wired with long bright wiring and properly tagged. An example of this might be where I needed to keep a motor generator running due to a faulty shutdown timer. If a mechanic gets a call of doors being knocked off the track, it is a SERVICE call and requires 2 men FOR A SAFETY FACTOR. Anytime the unit needs to be moved with the doors open, a second man with adequate communication should be at the affected landing. People being in a hurry or also being hurried by company management is what gets other people or themselves hurt.
Posted By: uppo72

Re: Another Death - 12/24/11 12:44 AM

yes smitty this is what i meant. shorts are only used ie fault in safeties or door lock cct's. again with a second man manning the effected area when required.in aus we have 2 landing door locks generally plus a car door lock so when 1 landing lock is open but the doors are shut you can safely short the 1 lock after you have inspected where the lift is and checked that the doors are shut. just on your wire shorts of non essential ccts,i agree with the type which is the idea of the long wires and fluoro orange tags with your name on it.
Posted By: Broke_Sheave

Re: Another Death - 01/10/12 04:37 AM

Rule for Jumpers are the same as Firearms..

Jumpers don't kill people who use them carelessly do. Control of the elevator is the key along with jumper awareness. You have got to KNOW what you are jumping, have total control of the elevator, and when leaving remove every jumper you have put on.

You can put tags, Jumper lists, timed jumpers, and all kinds of little things, but if you're going to use them you have to know what you're doing and keep up with them and go through your mental check list, before you leave that job, and remove everything.

Between the falls, crushing injuries, electrouction, this business is dangerous enough without having this crap occur..

I vividly remember, supervisors, who knew what they were doing, would immediately dismiss anyone caught breaking a jumper infraction. It's about pride in your trade..
Posted By: rklifted

Re: Another Death - 01/16/12 12:46 PM

The trouble is those well indocterined,well intentioned supervisors are few and far . Companies are to caught up in whose number one and their managers are the scrummers how those supervisors kept their eye on. They made into these positions by sacrificing our safety and we let them .k1 led the way
Posted By: christycollett

Re: Another Death - 02/04/12 01:13 AM

You Guys better check this one out.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tYE4Qm0g30

Note here so called elevator expert only put one jumper on and the car ran w/DO.
Posted By: Broke_Sheave

Re: Another Death - 02/04/12 02:37 AM

NEII ought to put together one of those, and have a miniature elevator, with a REAL SACRIFICIAL lab rat, getting caught between the doors. Students seeing that should get the message..
Posted By: christycollett

Re: Another Death - 04/01/12 07:48 PM

After reading all of the above, time out jumpers, licensing and legislation will not and cannot replace “COMPETENCE” It’s all about training and supervised experience. There are elevator companies out there using employees that have less experience and knowledge about the equipment there’re working on, then the guy that comes to fix the copy machine in your office. Say what you want but how many fatal accidents have been attributed to IUEC trained personnel as opposed the non IUEC personnel?
My Case Rests……………………………
As Always Work Safe,
Jim
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/03/12 06:36 PM

When Suzanne Hart was killed the mechanics had years of experience and are IUEC to my knowledge. Anyone can forget. Surgeons forget sponges in people and they are trained for years before they can operate. It really comes down to a simple question is a jumer that can remove itself from service safer than one that cannot? If jumper left behind accident are responcable for only 1% of all accident that equals 1 death every 3 years and 1,700 injurys in the US alone!!! And belive me the numbers are not easy to come by. But my research shows about 18 death cases in the last 50 years with doors jumped. So if the US is only 10% of the worlds elevators and the rest of the world has the same safety record as us. (witch I dont belive)That would come to 3 deaths a year and 17,000 injurys from jumper that have been forgotten!!! The majors are all world wide companies and that is why jumper training is a yearly mandated safety topic.
Posted By: christycollett

Re: Another Death - 04/05/12 05:50 PM

Good assessment, I completely agree with you regarding passenger miles traveled in elevators as compared to all forms of transportation. In all probability there were more fatalities during the morning commute into NYC on the day of Susan Harts’ death.
Why are elevators the safest form of transportation? It’s engineering along with the personnel that install, adjust, repair and do the maintenance.
Call it a mistake and blame it on an occupied call, time management or boss on your tail? Sorry, don’t buy it. I could almost understand if the route guy got his elevators mixed up, but, and a very large but. First off, didn’t check if the car he was working on was still on automatic. Second, check the lock circuit with a meter or test light and then worst of all, go ahead and jumper BOTH the locks and gate switch. Just how long could the first two parts take? A minute tops. The last and fatal act is not and never has been an option for trouble shooting. It’s just not done at least during the 40 years I was in the business. I would have been fired on the spot or would fire anyone working for me that took out both the gate switch and the locks on a car that was not under complete control. (I will post a story that happened in Seattle with a much better ending)
It’s a sad story, sad for Susan Harts family, sad for our industry and not to mention poor route guy that has to carry this rest of his life.
Posted By: uppo72

Re: Another Death - 04/06/12 12:29 AM

completely agree christy. there has been an influx of single lock instalations here which confuse mechanics as we always had twin lock lifts. facts are you do not short both locks and car doors at all without a helper standing at the front of the lift under our control. even then normally you would just kick the lift with the helper in position to gain car top access.
Posted By: christycollett

Re: Another Death - 04/07/12 06:14 PM

All right Guys!

How bout I offer a little kit that would cost your boss around 200 bucks work on just about any elevator that you could install in less than an a hour right at the controller. Once installed, it would take two jumpers to run the car and only on inspection.

I'm a 40 year retired IUEC and would to happy to build a test these things under someone else's liability.

Jim

PS: For chump change just in the past few months, one death and one serious injury could have been prevented.
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/08/12 03:01 PM

Lets not forget that jumping out door locks is just one point that causes injury or death. leaving jumpers behind on slow down switches, SOS switches , stop switches. May not produce the dramatic results as door locks but injure elevator workers and the riding public none the less. And for around the same 200$ every elevator person could be carring 3 Time Out Jumpers. That have been on the market for over 2 years. We use to just tell people to be careful. Now we supply hard hats , safety glasses and fall arrest systems. It is time to mandate the use of the Time Out Jumper and stop saying it shouldnt happen and it shouldnt I agree. But the point is it IS HAPPENING!!! And we are noy using what we have NOW to stop it.
Posted By: jkh

Re: Another Death - 04/08/12 08:03 PM

Dan Z
Although I think the time out jumpers are a great idea! I still see that much more is needed.

An accident may still happen even with a jumper that times out. Would you agree?

When I have to jump out any part of a safety circuit I secure the car and visually check to see the car is empty. I then disable the door open circuit and/or place the elevator on inspection. With a meter I will check the safety circuit string and look for the openning. Then I will jump out the open portion of the safety circuit.

If the problem isn't so simple to follow my normal pattern of trouble-shooting then I adapt to the situation. Always keeping control of the elevator. And never allowing anyone but our personnel to ride while we are working on the elevator.

I am interested to learn how others approach and the procedures they use when out in the field. How can I improve on my pattern for a trouble call?
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/09/12 11:35 AM

jkh Yes there is no question the TOJ is as dangerous as any jumper when in the closed posistion. The best thing about the TOJ is that it will take itself out after a set time something normal jumpers cant do. I belive that as in most cases the people who care enough to spen time doing x-tra research into their profesion and use sites like this are the least likely to have major safety problems. As everyone keeps saying what we were taught. Use your meter first. Get controll of the elevator. Know what and where your elevator is and who is on it. Very basic elevator 1 0 1 stuff. And if everyone is doing the right thing all the time no one would need the TOJ. And we could get rid of cops, lawers, and judges while we are at it. So as long as people are people and the way our industry is going with more and more units assinged to guys who then have to team up to preform their own repairs. No helper time and one man testing I dont see thing getting alot better real soon. It just really bothers me to hear of people being hurt or killed when you know it could of been prevented. FIRST by proper elevator safety protocal and second by the TOJ.
Posted By: christycollett

Re: Another Death - 04/10/12 08:19 PM

After looking at what I came up with discovered a weak point. It monitors the door close limit was well as the locks and gate switch. Problem is just about all door close limits open when the doors are closed. Not a positive input like the locks and gate switch. So, I’m backing off and only offering a simple kit that would require 2 jumpers to run the car rather the one. In this case the cost would 200 or less and might find its niche somewhere between FSSG* and nothing. The kit could be an alternative to FSSG on older and smaller jobs without inspection.

*FSSG is and add on that detects a jumper on the locks and gate switch and then places the car in inspection when detected. It’s a great idea and a “Life Saver” For more information contact.

Patrick A. Carrajat patrick@elevatorhistory.com
Posted By: jkh

Re: Another Death - 04/10/12 09:12 PM

Jim,
I like the direction you are taking me. I personally feel we need additional circuits to help promote the safety of elevators. If we have the gate switch in one circuit and the hatch doors in another that means two jumpers are needed to by pass the car. If you add a switch to the door operator to make as the close limit opens there is a redundancy for safety for the car gate. I liked the second set of contacts in some of the old Westinghouse locks. Just add another control circuit and it may help! Yes i know it still comes down to the person putting on jumpers to bypass. But this is about percentages. Two is better then one, three is better then two!

DanZ
I did look into the timeout jumpers. Wurtec is selling them for $89.25 per unit! When I googled the timeout jumper you came up as the inventor. I would like to know if the information that concerns me about the unit is true? I was told that the maximum time that could be programmed is 99 hours and 59 minutes. Is that information correct?

Posted By: christycollett

Re: Another Death - 04/11/12 12:49 AM

Hey Dan, I'm not the inventor and don't really approve of them.

It's back to the guy on the job. We will talk more about my little change.

Jim
Posted By: Smitty

Re: Another Death - 04/12/12 05:39 PM

They could mandate on all units the new style door bypass switches that are found on the newer elevators that put you on car top inspection when active. I also like the idea of redundant door limits. The current use of a DPM limit is a great thing since the unit will not run until the doors are physically shut even if the gate circuit is jumped out. Of course any safety can be defeated if you try hard enough but as JKH said above, it is about percentages. Anything that makes this scenario more unlikely is a positive step. I really don't like the TOJ because to me anyhow, the best remedy for jumper carelessness is to totally discourage the use of them in ordinary troubleshooting. The door lock bypass circuit does give the field technician a safer means of bypassing the locks without the use of any jumpers at all.
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/13/12 12:00 PM

The elevator man that was injured that got me thinking about the TOJ was hurt when a car ran with the car top stop switch had been jumped!!! Like I said the hall and car gate are the big attension getter but may not be the leading cause of people getting hurt. Killed maybe but hurt ???? Yes the TOJ are priced at around 90$ so 3 per man 270$ alot cheaper that even 200$ for every elevator. JKH the max time is 99hrs and 59 sec. But there is a master controll that can be set to only allow an predetermined amount of time. Say 10 miniutes if that is what a company decides to set their safety policy to.
Posted By: jkh

Re: Another Death - 04/13/12 12:38 PM

Dan
I'm concerned that a cleaver mechanic will find a way to bypass any master control or a lazy manager will give out the password or leave it up to a mechanic to set up a TOJ.

Its my opinion that the best line of defense is at the controller. A door bypass circuit switch that disables the door open circuit or places the car on inspection when toggled. Training and additional redundancies in the gate and hatch door circuits I believe are better then any type of jumper.

I do wish you luck with your business endeavor.
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/13/12 06:32 PM

JKH No one would be happier than me if they mandated bypass-infared detectors and unintended motion. It is really a no brainer if safety is really the first priority. And I would still make an argument for the TOJ even if it were not my invention. You can train a person and preach till you are blue in the face but people will still forget. I remember the first time we were forced to wear hard hats on the job. Then safety belts and eye protection and we all knew it was a pain and it only happened to someone elce.But the numbers do not lie these mandated safety devices have reduced the number of deaths and injuries in our trade. The jumpers are the same. Everyone wants to think it would never happen to them I would never forget. Or we can train this problem away. Well then why does it still happen??? Elevator men are being charged with criminal offences that could land them in jail for 10 years. They are talking about charges being brought on 5 or 6 people who have already lost their job. And if it was a jumper we all know it was installed and forgotten by one man. I have family and dear friends in this trade that I never want to see them hurt or accused of a crime because they or someone elce forgot something. Why would we not use something that is safer?
Posted By: jkh

Re: Another Death - 04/14/12 02:37 PM

Dan

Again, I am for any improvement that will cut down the percentage of the "opertunity" for an accident to happen. Your contribution is a notibale addition to the industry. However I for one with my limited experience in the industry am not a believer in the TOJs Merritt's.

A jumper is a jumper! Timer or not. Once a circuit is bypassed by a mechanic the control of the elevator is the issue! We as a society of perfesionals need to dig deeper and find a more plausible solution.

As far as the PPE program! It has made an impact on all trades. The value of safety glasses, hard hats and other protective wear is not in question. The hazards have to be identified by each individual in their perspective industries.

In my opinion training is our most valuable tool in our bags! Wether you are in a class room or in the field you can always learn something of value.

And Dan if the instructor PREACHING was not blue in the face ask yourself if you would have kept those lessons all of your years.
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/16/12 11:03 AM

I am the safety director and Yes my face is Blue!!!!
Posted By: Broke_Sheave

Re: Another Death - 04/16/12 01:17 PM

I wonder about a few things. Maybe it's just the times of instant media, and the entire world connected together, but it seems like in the olden days, an elevator tradgedy happened every few years, and everybody heard about it. The incidents seemed a lot more rare.

Now it seems like hardly a month goes by, that we aren't hearing about a passenger or mechanic involved in a fatality.

I can also remember the time when, if a consultant showed up on your job, it was taken personally by the mechanic and the company. The very idea that the building didn't trust us enough to hire an outside consultant was shameful.

Now it's just an everyday occurence..

I have my thoughts on both counts, but before I respond, was wondering what you guys thought????
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/16/12 11:13 PM

I belive consultants being one of the biggest growth areas in our trade over the last 10 to 15 years is in direct proportion to the overloading of routes. The elimanation of repair and testing crews and the overall decline of quality of service provided by a majority in our industry. I would belive that the injury rate could be linked to the shoter time it now takes to become a mechanic. But the numbers will prove that wrong as most serious injurys are involving men with at least 20 years in the trade???? Are the injury rates related to the number of hours worked???? I am not sure and proably will neve get the data needed to have more than just my opnion.
Posted By: Smitty

Re: Another Death - 04/18/12 05:30 AM

When I started years ago a route mechanic typically had about 40 to 50 units on their route. Now take that figure and multiply by 3 or even 4 these days. Now the technology has made the job easier in some respects but yet harder in others. I think the level of distraction for people in the field is a factor in accidents. Years ago we didn't have cell phones, PDAs and the constant need to update our field status on a hour by hour basis. This adds to a lot of stress and the feeling of constantly being in a rush to get from job to job. I think given that we use computers to troubleshoot leads us to forget that we are still surrounded by high voltage and rotating equipment.
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 04/18/12 08:20 PM

Smitty, I agree, I was talking to some guys the other day. 280 units on their route and havent seen them all yet this year. Just running from call to call and if you get a minute-- do one man safety testing or work with another route man to recable because the repair crew was let go!!!!!
Posted By: uppo72

Re: Another Death - 04/18/12 11:21 PM

its seems its going on all over the globe. when i started at the major aussie lift co we had 30 lifts on weekly service. the round was serviced by 1 mechanic, a apprentice and a share of a trde assistant between him and another mechanic. now i know the guys have upwards of 200 units on the car rounds which its impossible to service 60 per month let alone 200. this is why the consultants has come alive as these companies with these buildings arent getting the service they pay for.
Posted By: christycollett

Re: Another Death - 04/19/12 12:06 AM

To keep this old man busy, i cobbled up a little circuit revision. After installation, 2 jumpers would be needed to disable the gate switch and the locks. I'm not doing anything that most of you guys couldn't do. But, after 40 plus years in the trade I know what it takes to get a job done without numerous trips back to the truck. Not counting coffee. it's a little kit that contains everything required to prevent the type of accidents we have heard about in last few months.

Here's the deal, it's all done at the controller takes less than an hour to install, costs your boss just over a hundred bucks for the generic version and a little more for job specific and Otis. "Chump Change" in this business.

The end results, a safer elevator for your customers, a little extra billing for the guy that signs your checks and some hours for you guys.
Posted By: aquadag

Re: Another Death - 04/19/12 03:04 AM

there were several mechs in the building the day of, there was a jumper left on. They have camera images of the elevator moving up and down the floors doors open, The area sup and other mechs were there, but just one guy is getting charged with involuntary manslaughter. The owner is losing a license to operate and I am pretty sure this was a signatory company. There is never a reason to jump out doors without someone in the car with a radio and barracades on the floor. I have been doing this for a very long time and have fired many a mech for this. You get no chances for this ever. I was almost killed by this kind of error myself. I don't know about everyone else but the first trouble shooting lesson was no jumped doors ever unless total control over the car was had.The mech who had this happen has lost everything including his family house kids and job. don't get pressured by overzealous supt's. I forgot one thing the supt and other mechs left the building to get lunch with the jumper on. This last part I was unable to verify but I have heard it from many sources and it was in the criminal complaint agaist the company
Posted By: tommycakes

Re: Another Death - 04/26/12 03:22 AM

I use jumpers all the time i don't know how you can troubleshoot and adjust cars without them....not that you leave them but you need to jump things move the car then go repair them . I always was taught to always have control of the car and to never jump doors or gates without having someone with the car it is just a no no...and if you do its only a matter of time before someone gets hurt
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 05/11/12 06:43 PM

Tommy jumpers are an everyday nessity in our buisness. And here is another death linked to the misuse of jumpers and another reason the Timeout Jumper should be mandated in our industry. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_n...ath-3547035.php
Posted By: danzeitz

Re: Another Death - 05/15/12 04:02 PM

2 women dead and a third disabled in the last year from the misuse or forgotten jumpers. And this is not just from the car and hall doors being jumped. How many of the other deaths and 17000 injuries a year are from misused or forgotten jumpers on safety circuits , slowdown switches or others. When as an industry do we say enough is enough and use current technologies to save lifes and prevent injury.
Posted By: elev8

Re: Another Death - 06/20/12 11:05 AM

Being a adjuster trained by Otis for over 20 years. Jumpers were mandatory for mods , new construction etc.Otis uses bright green or bright Orange Jumpers tagged with what was jumped. This in my mind is the best policy. Any jumper you would put on a door/gate switch should be around your neck. You jump it out with you standing in the jumper. The jumper leaves when you leave. I know that any elevator mechanic in his right mind would not jump any door/gate out and leave the building. I have witnessed building maintenance workers placing jumpers on safety circuits on shut down elevators. I have lost my mind on these people. Many of good mechanics have been blamed for something they never did. This does not console family of the dearly departed. But until the accident is investigated properly all we can do is assume.
Assumption is the mother of all F#$% UPS
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