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Elevator speed on emergency power

Posted By: InFritzWeTrust

Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/11/16 06:54 PM

This is more of a rant than a question, but I'd like to hear other mechanic's thoughts on this.

Just went through a California state inspection on a two car traction mod. Group 4 code on an existing group 2 installation. Motion control M4000 controllers, hollister whitney machines, westinghouse cars, building has an emergency power generator designed to operate one elevator at a time when on generator power.

The controllers came programmed from the manufacturer (MCE) to run at 50% speed when on emergency power. The state inspector didn't know if this was allowed and called his boss the senior inspector for San Francisco. The senior answers back that they elevators must run at "rated speed" when on emergency power. That's fine, I change a parameter, takes less than five minutes and the cars now run at contract speed.I pass the inspection no problem.

I ask the inspector to ask the senior for a code reference for the "rated speed" when on emergency power for my future reference. (I will admit I was being kind of a smart ass, because I was pretty sure there was no such requirement.) The senior inspector answers back by email saying: "ask the mechanic where in the code it allows an elevator to run at reduced speed when on emergency power".

Ask a smart ass question, and get a smart ass answer. The installation complies with ASME A17.1 2004 2.27.2.1 through 2.27.2.5 which says nothing about "rated speed" at all. It seems to me then if there is no prohibition per code and no obvious safety risk to mechanics or the riding public, why does the code specifically have to allow various speeds? Why should the state just get to make stuff up when the manufacturer designs it state approved product to operate a certain way under various conditions. I trust the engineers at MCE who designed the controllers had a reason to have a reduced speed when on backup generator power, the state inspectors won't give any reasoning other than the code doesn't specifically allow it.

Well end of my rant. Does anyone have any comments?
Thanks, IUEC Local 8 mechanic, 12 years in the trade, first post here.
Posted By: john jay

Re: Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/11/16 10:26 PM

As a QEI Inspector, I have no problem with a car running at 50% of contract speed. There is no Code requirement on this.
Posted By: InFritzWeTrust

Re: Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/12/16 02:21 AM

Thank you for your response, and for confirming my reading of the code.
Posted By: Johnny

Re: Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/12/16 02:47 AM

If there is no Code requirement for rated speed, then reduced speed is allowed.
Posted By: john jay

Re: Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/12/16 04:29 PM

almost all the company's have an alternate profile to allow Emergency Generators to run more cars. It reduces the Current Load on the Genny.
Posted By: Sully

Re: Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/17/16 03:16 AM

I don't know how to do your job ,but my book says you are doing it wrong!what a dick,god bles sites like this for those who look for answers.local 15 brew town
Posted By: john jay

Re: Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/17/16 09:54 PM

When doing an Acceptance Test the E Gen must be able to run the car from the top to the bottom with a 125% load without tripping the the governor electrical speed switch. Then remove the 25% overload and run the car with a full load up and down and check for proper operation. So after the 125% run to the bottom you can run at a reduced profile as long as you have proper operation. That is my opinion of how the code reads,this come from A17.2-2014 Inspection Guide.
Posted By: InFritzWeTrust

Re: Elevator speed on emergency power - 11/25/16 07:25 PM

Who specifically are you referring to when you say they are doing it wrong, and what specifically do you think is wrong with the procedure? Try to be helpful, be specific.
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