Miprom 21

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#12576 - 11/03/14 07:20 PM Miprom 21
Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13 Redexit stranger
Redexit stranger Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13	We have a car that is stopping at every other floor in the up and down direction when a car or hall call is given until it reaches its destination. It does this in normal mode, independent service and on phase II. I checked option select parameters for CSV Overide, Automatic Halls, and emergency power and everything seems normal. Any help will be sincerely appreciated.

#12577 - 11/03/14 07:47 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: Redexit]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	check to see if your 150 ft. or your intermediate speed sw. is out of tolerance.If the car doesn't see the sw. at the proper time it will stop at the next floor. Also when you run be in motion info. It should give you a clue. so should motion excuses. I assume of course you have a service tool of some sort.

#12589 - 11/04/14 12:34 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: john jay]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	I told you wrong in the previous post. To check speed sw's go to MSU adjust, select motion averages, make a long run. The speed sw's will show when they turn on. Sorry about that.

#12607 - 11/05/14 08:07 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: john jay]
Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13 Redexit stranger
Redexit stranger Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13	john jay. Thank you for your attention,offering help and sharing your knowledge. I did check the speed boards on your suggestion and they check up fine. I can see them light up as the elevator travels to its destination and I can monitor them in motion averages. This is a weird problem that I've never seen. Again, thanks for your time. I will keep busting on this.

#12614 - 11/05/14 09:40 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: Redexit]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	Are you registering faults? what does motion info screen 2 tell you, look at verr which will tell you if a position error was detected on the last vane passed.

#12615 - 11/05/14 09:47 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: john jay]
Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13 Redexit stranger
Redexit stranger Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13	There are no errors in the error log. Debug shows car normal. No motion errors or drive errors. The car acts like its on emergency power. however, its not. Again, Thanks for your help.

#12621 - 11/06/14 06:00 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: Redexit]
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 366 E311 enthusiast
E311 enthusiast Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 366 DFW	Sounds like some sort of "Wild Car" operation, CSV1/CSV2 toggeling?

#12623 - 11/06/14 08:30 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: E311]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	is this part of a group,or a duplex operation?

#12779 - 11/19/14 04:34 AM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: john jay]
Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13 Redexit stranger
Redexit stranger Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 13	I got a chance to work on this car again and found that if I slowed the car down to 350 ft pm. The elevator will work fine. It will reach its destination up or down without stopping at every other floor. However this is a 500 ft/pm car. Will continue to troubleshoot this baby. E311 just to pick your brain-if it is CSV1/CSV2 toggeling? What would be the cause of that... I did see parameters for CSV1/CSV2 with the service tool but I'm pretty sure they are on the right setting. E311--and --john jay.. Thanks for your attention and help..

#12785 - 11/19/14 10:14 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: Redexit]
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 366 E311 enthusiast
E311 enthusiast Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 366 DFW	CSV1 and CSV2 are LEDs that show the communication between the cars. On a duplex, the master car will have green LEDs for these and the aux. car wil have red LEDs

#12787 - 11/20/14 12:31 AM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: E311]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	if you slowed the car down and it runs ok, then I would say the last speed switch before you reach contract speed is out of tolerance. you adjust these by looking at motion averages, it will tell what speed the switch is picking at. then you adjust the correct speed board in the net box. these boards have pots that allow you to change the point at which the board picks the associated relay.

#13776 - 04/01/15 03:40 AM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: john jay]
Joined: Jan 2014 Posts: 432 Vatorgator addict
Vatorgator addict Joined: Jan 2014 Posts: 432	what was the outcome on this one redexit

#13817 - 04/04/15 04:06 AM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: Vatorgator]
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 101 J Sand Troubleshooter
J Sand Troubleshooter Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 101 Los Angeles	I have the same issue on a duplex. it will not pull in my intermediate relay and stop at the next floor in both directions. It is a 400 fpm geared. If I try to run inspection speed at 40 fpm (10% of contract), it only runs 20 fpm. Car was running fine 2 weeks ago. My pattern (VC to GAN) is .8, which is correct since 8 volts is full speed. At the drive, My 0.8 volts runs through ADC 1 (scaled the same as other car) and converts to digital value of 200 (should be 400). since this is a geared car, the motor is rated for 1150 rpm and should turn 115 rpm to produce 40 fpm; it only turns 57 rpm. All current/voltages/fields are correct. It tracks perfectly at 57 rpm. The encoder is a 2048 (tried a new one even). If I didnt know any better, the input of the encoder to the drive is thinking 57 rpm is correct. I doubled the encoder rate in the drive and MSU and the speed is now correct. Was going to change drive, but this car is the master and "bad things" happened. Going to try and swap main drive board Monday. Thoughts?

#13820 - 04/04/15 11:39 AM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: J Sand]
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 563 uppo72 addict
uppo72 addict Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 563	Originally Posted By: J Sand I have the same issue on a duplex. it will not pull in my intermediate relay and stop at the next floor in both directions. It is a 400 fpm geared. If I try to run inspection speed at 40 fpm (10% of contract), it only runs 20 fpm. Car was running fine 2 weeks ago. My pattern (VC to GAN) is .8, which is correct since 8 volts is full speed. At the drive, My 0.8 volts runs through ADC 1 (scaled the same as other car) and converts to digital value of 200 (should be 400). since this is a geared car, the motor is rated for 1150 rpm and should turn 115 rpm to produce 40 fpm; it only turns 57 rpm. All current/voltages/fields are correct. It tracks perfectly at 57 rpm. The encoder is a 2048 (tried a new one even). If I didnt know any better, the input of the encoder to the drive is thinking 57 rpm is correct. I doubled the encoder rate in the drive and MSU and the speed is now correct. Was going to change drive, but this car is the master and "bad things" happened. Going to try and swap main drive board Monday. Thoughts? Not sure on this equipment but I have a similar fault which was a parameter setting which was a 'factor' setting. It was set to .5 instead of 1 which halved all incoming values. I have also had a encoder flip it setting too, which it appeared to do here. Was the 2048 the right setting?

#13822 - 04/04/15 01:12 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: uppo72]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	The parameter PPR in the Drive and the MSU have to match. The PPR is pulses per revolution. If the velocity encoder is mounted on the end of the motor shaft, 2048 is correct. If it run off of a wheel on the machine sheave you have to input the correct PPR to the drive and to the msu. If the speed boards aren't pulling in that is the problem. try adjusting the intermediate speed board, it will not pull in if it is out of tolerance, a fairly common occurrence. Tweak the pot on the board, and check motion averages for changes. Also the speed board may be bad if it won't change when you tweak it. A not UN-heard of problem.

#13838 - 04/05/15 07:05 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: john jay]
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 101 J Sand Troubleshooter
J Sand Troubleshooter Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 101 Los Angeles	The speed board would not be coming in until 267 fpm?, We are "flat-topping" at 200 fpm. MSU and Drive PPR are both at 2048, now and before the problem. The encoder is mounted directly to the shaft of the armature. 150 fpm speed board is coming in correctly on AUTO. This speed difference occurs on AUTO as well as inspection speed (now at 40 fpm, or 10% of contract so I don't have to do math), so the speed boards wouldn't be a factor at that low. Last edited by J Sand; 04/05/15 07:09 PM.

#13839 - 04/05/15 07:06 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: uppo72]
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 101 J Sand Troubleshooter
J Sand Troubleshooter Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 101 Los Angeles	the encoder is a BEI 2048 encoder. I also installed a new one just for fun and no difference.

#13840 - 04/05/15 09:57 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: J Sand]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	Go to MSU adjust, 2nd screen will tell you what is limiting you. If you have load weighing voltage over 100% it will limit you to half of Mvel. Mvel should be at contract speed. Also if you have alternate profile software and your EPC input is high that will also limit your speed. Another quick thing is to replace your MSU Board, they are plug and play.

#13841 - 04/05/15 10:34 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: john jay]
Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 175 NOTIME member
NOTIME member Joined: Oct 2013 Posts: 175	Check the MOtion Info all Screen maibe is not a Fault is just a Status Somithing activated "earthquake" Loadweight" etc......

#13842 - 04/05/15 11:14 PM Re: Miprom 21 [Re: NOTIME]
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 john jay old hand
john jay old hand Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 761 ohio	I meant to say, go to MSU adjust, Motion Info, 2nd screen.

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