have a car that is shutting down every couple weeks, quantum 10k drive, mechanic indicates that it is getting a 1871 rope tension fault, rope 6, and a 709 phase loss fault. those are the only 2 faults, he does a tfr command and car runs fine. there is a ims on job with rope monitor program in ims, and all the rope tensions are within 5-10 percent of each other, they actually look closer then the other cars. after researching i see in the manual that 1871 is just a warning, and should not shut the car down. also 709 fault indicates if it clears, it should return to service. has anyone had any experience with either of these faults requiring a TFR to get car running. as far as i can see, neither should require a tfr reset what do you think

They shouldn't gator. Rope tension fault is a % as well and can be adjusted under motion I believe. M80 should be warning, m81 should be the shutdown number. When I adjust these, I usually set them at 40 and 50, respectively. 5-10 % ain't bad, but we strive to leave all of ours under 6 % as they deviate from top of hoistway versus bottom of the hoistway. May want to check anti spin to make sure shackles are not coming into contact with each other at top or bottom of hoistway extremes.

Phase loss can be a sketchy thing to trace at best. Upper left hand of the high volt side, is an adjustable monitor. Pots have a % and a time in seconds, that it will allow for under voltage. 5% at 15 seconds are what I typically set them from a NI point of adjust. Depending on the software you are running, I have heard the faults on earlier models for software were misleading about the phase loss, perhaps Dirt has some more info on it. If it truly is a phase loss issue, the usual culprits of connections for the three phase come into play.

Could it be that you have to do the TFR because the 709 didn't clear in an allotted time of the error code being registered. Check your fuse holders. Make sure they are making good contact.

thanks guys, i had him set m80 to 0 to disable the warning just to see, just researched the phase monitor circuit,it is a little more involved then just on or off at voltage level, it could be a monitor problem, or as you guys indicate a connection problem or timing problem with the monitor. i will check that out, but still concerned that a tfr is required.. I had him leave m81 at the original value not sure what that was, but m80 was at 70 percent.. silly, one thing that may be interesting, is that the car is always at the 11th floor, which is one floor below top, maybe there is something he is missing, but he is adamant that there are only the 2 faults.
this is the only car out of the 9 cars that have had the machine replaced by thyssen with the torin machine, because the 4-5 year old modded machine is obsolete. not that it matters, but it is a variable that is in play, as the bldg indicates that this car has been more troublesome then the others. we just acquired the job a couple months ago.
also another question, is the rope monitor that critical to the performance of the car? is it just used for pre-torque, etc. is it possible to run the cars without the rope monitors? is this a safety problem? does the rope monitor have an effect on how the car actually runs during hi speed, decel, level etc.? jkh i will have to test to see if there is a timing problem with the monitor that could cause problem. maybe swap the phase monitor with another car. thanks again guys.

No it will not have any effects on the car performance. I have even went as far as to change the number of ropes I was monitoring when I had an issue with a sensor. Took a 6 rope, told it we only had 5 ropes, until I could run and grab a new sensor, car ran flawlessly.

Let me know what you come up with on the monitor. Do not have any experience with the quantum, we typically use the accord drive. I just remembered a bunch of field notes on the god awful software versions and how most of the early ones pretty much were steering us in a polar opposite direction from the true issue.

Was this an Isis II converted to steel ropes or did it start as a Synergy? I ask because so few Synergys came with 10K drives, I've only seen 1. The Isis II conversions will still be using the original hitch plate load weighing transducer for pre-torque and drive performance. The rope tension monitor is added for variance compliance with the 8mm ropes. I have spent a lot of time chasing strange problems caused by where they put the contact from that monitor. On a real Synergy, you can unplug the CAN plug to the RTM and reset the CPU to bypass the RTM temporarily but it is a code required safety device for the variance. One note though is expect the performance to be much more effected on a 10K drive as apposed to an Accord.

The TFR thing really sounds wrong for this if it is not an Isis II abortion. I have been asking guys to pull up IMS with motion diagnostics, door diagnostics, I/Os & Remote fast, type FLT and FLTN and snap a picture before doing anything. I try to do it too. I would really be curious what that looked like in this case as far as sequence of the faults, status of the car and SAFE inputs.

The last time I had issues with this 709 fault was from the Line Contactor not picking, I think it was the LCP timer.

not sure idwt, it was a mod of an old us 1200 system , this one is the 6 car group.
i don't believe it ever had belts. think its always been the steel ropes, but not sure.
its definitely the 10 k drive, as i sent you a pic of the other building with the drive issue and you said it was a quantum 10k drive. this building is identical.
definitely not an accord drive.
i will make sure he sends me pics of all the screens before he resets next time. That is what I'm thinking, there must be something else that is requiring the tfr, or maybe he is confused, and it really doesn't need the tfr command, ill have a better idea next time thanks again guys.

Oh, I assumed it was an MRL because of the rope tension monitor faults. I have never seen them on anything but. I certainly don't think the RTM should be allowed to cause a shutdown on a car with standard size ropes. Does anyone else have any thoughts on that?

BTW, what did you find to be the cause of your drive problem on that job?

all the cars have tiny ropes. i think the rtm program variable was 8mm for rope size, number of ropes was 6. I just double checked with him, and he says those were the only faults. i told him to call me before resetting next time.

IDWT the other building is a 2 car group, the one i asked about the phase fault. we swapped every board,and could not get the fault to clear, so i know it was not a board problem. we had it shipped out for repair, and they just put it back in this afternoon. drive fault cleared, no more phase fault 709 , or timed overcurrent fault. car runs great. did not speak to repair technicians but heard they replaced some capacitors? maybe the dc buss caps? or some components in the power structure, or possibly the LEM units, thats all that was left to replace as far as i could see. there was 670vdc on the buss, so really not sure what they found will have to see if they can be more precise. good thing is it is running. thanks to ACCESS Electronics they did another great job of fixing a drive, was a little pricey at over 6K dollars, but thats what you pay if you want to play with the big boys. ha ha

Must have been one of the LEMs. Thanks for the update.

Are you saying they put 8mm ropes on a MOD?

smallest ropes i have ever seen, yes it is a mod, took a picture of the rope tension program, its 8mm 6 ropes 2:1 i have some pics of the machine ill try to post, it was an old mp1200 us job. no wonder they need a rope monitor for safety, ropes look like dental floss ha ha

the car went down again today, only fault this time was 1873 rope tension fault shutdown. mode was Run Monitor. This time had him check the rope monitor and rope 6 was at 82% out of tolerance, which is 12 percent above the M81 parameter which caused the shut down . He checked rope 6, and indicated it was loose. he tightened it up, and did a tfr and back in service. the previous mechanic had tightened the same rope a few weeks ago, although he said it was not "that loose" this mechanic said it was definitely loose. He checked the ropes throughout the system, and can find no problem with that rope. He did say that the value of the load for that rope does change significantly from the very bottom to the very top. it seems to get loose at the upper floors. this was the only fault. last time it was 1871 and 709 but i had the previous mechanic turn off m80 so it could be that this job, 1871 will indeed shut the car down, or maybe the previous mechanic missed the 1873 fault. gonna keep an eye on it

Gator i have had my rope monitors take severe shits on me after weight tests. Sometimes th CANRTM does not get calibrated properly. May want to,have him re set that rope, take off the sensor, null it out, and re attach it. That has saved me more than a few headaches with weird warnings and shutdowns.

Resetting the whole kit requires weights, and really should be done with full load. There is a trick though, using a known value, through the rope monitor screen. When you do the learn full, it asks for the value. I have done it with 500 lbs, but I found the variables at higher weights were more than when I had used a solid 4K+.

They probably never tensioned the ropes correctly when installed. Sometimes you end up chasing that loose rope that never got stretched like the rest. I would tension the ropes with a torque wrench. Sheave to sheave with Cwt, measure each rope at all 4 points and add together. Get them right on but make that rope the tightest. Then set up the CANRTM with weights. You should have the component manual on it.

thanks idwt we do have the manual, good advice, will do.