JKH No one would be happier than me if they mandated bypass-infared detectors and unintended motion. It is really a no brainer if safety is really the first priority. And I would still make an argument for the TOJ even if it were not my invention. You can train a person and preach till you are blue in the face but people will still forget. I remember the first time we were forced to wear hard hats on the job. Then safety belts and eye protection and we all knew it was a pain and it only happened to someone elce.But the numbers do not lie these mandated safety devices have reduced the number of deaths and injuries in our trade. The jumpers are the same. Everyone wants to think it would never happen to them I would never forget. Or we can train this problem away. Well then why does it still happen??? Elevator men are being charged with criminal offences that could land them in jail for 10 years. They are talking about charges being brought on 5 or 6 people who have already lost their job. And if it was a jumper we all know it was installed and forgotten by one man. I have family and dear friends in this trade that I never want to see them hurt or accused of a crime because they or someone elce forgot something. Why would we not use something that is safer?

Dan

Again, I am for any improvement that will cut down the percentage of the "opertunity" for an accident to happen. Your contribution is a notibale addition to the industry. However I for one with my limited experience in the industry am not a believer in the TOJs Merritt's.

A jumper is a jumper! Timer or not. Once a circuit is bypassed by a mechanic the control of the elevator is the issue! We as a society of perfesionals need to dig deeper and find a more plausible solution.

As far as the PPE program! It has made an impact on all trades. The value of safety glasses, hard hats and other protective wear is not in question. The hazards have to be identified by each individual in their perspective industries.

In my opinion training is our most valuable tool in our bags! Wether you are in a class room or in the field you can always learn something of value.

And Dan if the instructor PREACHING was not blue in the face ask yourself if you would have kept those lessons all of your years.

I am the safety director and Yes my face is Blue!!!!

I wonder about a few things. Maybe it's just the times of instant media, and the entire world connected together, but it seems like in the olden days, an elevator tradgedy happened every few years, and everybody heard about it. The incidents seemed a lot more rare.

Now it seems like hardly a month goes by, that we aren't hearing about a passenger or mechanic involved in a fatality.

I can also remember the time when, if a consultant showed up on your job, it was taken personally by the mechanic and the company. The very idea that the building didn't trust us enough to hire an outside consultant was shameful.

Now it's just an everyday occurence..

I have my thoughts on both counts, but before I respond, was wondering what you guys thought????

I belive consultants being one of the biggest growth areas in our trade over the last 10 to 15 years is in direct proportion to the overloading of routes. The elimanation of repair and testing crews and the overall decline of quality of service provided by a majority in our industry. I would belive that the injury rate could be linked to the shoter time it now takes to become a mechanic. But the numbers will prove that wrong as most serious injurys are involving men with at least 20 years in the trade???? Are the injury rates related to the number of hours worked???? I am not sure and proably will neve get the data needed to have more than just my opnion.

When I started years ago a route mechanic typically had about 40 to 50 units on their route. Now take that figure and multiply by 3 or even 4 these days. Now the technology has made the job easier in some respects but yet harder in others. I think the level of distraction for people in the field is a factor in accidents. Years ago we didn't have cell phones, PDAs and the constant need to update our field status on a hour by hour basis. This adds to a lot of stress and the feeling of constantly being in a rush to get from job to job. I think given that we use computers to troubleshoot leads us to forget that we are still surrounded by high voltage and rotating equipment.

Smitty, I agree, I was talking to some guys the other day. 280 units on their route and havent seen them all yet this year. Just running from call to call and if you get a minute-- do one man safety testing or work with another route man to recable because the repair crew was let go!!!!!

its seems its going on all over the globe. when i started at the major aussie lift co we had 30 lifts on weekly service. the round was serviced by 1 mechanic, a apprentice and a share of a trde assistant between him and another mechanic. now i know the guys have upwards of 200 units on the car rounds which its impossible to service 60 per month let alone 200. this is why the consultants has come alive as these companies with these buildings arent getting the service they pay for.

To keep this old man busy, i cobbled up a little circuit revision. After installation, 2 jumpers would be needed to disable the gate switch and the locks. I'm not doing anything that most of you guys couldn't do. But, after 40 plus years in the trade I know what it takes to get a job done without numerous trips back to the truck. Not counting coffee. it's a little kit that contains everything required to prevent the type of accidents we have heard about in last few months.

Here's the deal, it's all done at the controller takes less than an hour to install, costs your boss just over a hundred bucks for the generic version and a little more for job specific and Otis. "Chump Change" in this business.

The end results, a safer elevator for your customers, a little extra billing for the guy that signs your checks and some hours for you guys.

there were several mechs in the building the day of, there was a jumper left on. They have camera images of the elevator moving up and down the floors doors open, The area sup and other mechs were there, but just one guy is getting charged with involuntary manslaughter. The owner is losing a license to operate and I am pretty sure this was a signatory company. There is never a reason to jump out doors without someone in the car with a radio and barracades on the floor. I have been doing this for a very long time and have fired many a mech for this. You get no chances for this ever. I was almost killed by this kind of error myself. I don't know about everyone else but the first trouble shooting lesson was no jumped doors ever unless total control over the car was had.The mech who had this happen has lost everything including his family house kids and job. don't get pressured by overzealous supt's. I forgot one thing the supt and other mechs left the building to get lunch with the jumper on. This last part I was unable to verify but I have heard it from many sources and it was in the criminal complaint agaist the company

I use jumpers all the time i don't know how you can troubleshoot and adjust cars without them....not that you leave them but you need to jump things move the car then go repair them . I always was taught to always have control of the car and to never jump doors or gates without having someone with the car it is just a no no...and if you do its only a matter of time before someone gets hurt

Tommy jumpers are an everyday nessity in our buisness. And here is another death linked to the misuse of jumpers and another reason the Timeout Jumper should be mandated in our industry. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_n...ath-3547035.php

2 women dead and a third disabled in the last year from the misuse or forgotten jumpers. And this is not just from the car and hall doors being jumped. How many of the other deaths and 17000 injuries a year are from misused or forgotten jumpers on safety circuits , slowdown switches or others. When as an industry do we say enough is enough and use current technologies to save lifes and prevent injury.

Being a adjuster trained by Otis for over 20 years. Jumpers were mandatory for mods , new construction etc.Otis uses bright green or bright Orange Jumpers tagged with what was jumped. This in my mind is the best policy. Any jumper you would put on a door/gate switch should be around your neck. You jump it out with you standing in the jumper. The jumper leaves when you leave. I know that any elevator mechanic in his right mind would not jump any door/gate out and leave the building. I have witnessed building maintenance workers placing jumpers on safety circuits on shut down elevators. I have lost my mind on these people. Many of good mechanics have been blamed for something they never did. This does not console family of the dearly departed. But until the accident is investigated properly all we can do is assume.
Assumption is the mother of all F#$% UPS