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#32652 - 03/03/22 08:40 PM Favorite Mod  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 589
Jluff Offline
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Jluff  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 589
What is your guys favorite mod components combo for hydro’s
I use ESI for controller , claddagh for selector and gal for door operator.

#32656 - 03/04/22 01:54 AM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
EElevator Offline
member
EElevator  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
Definitely would be removing proprietary equipment and installing a VA controls MH-3000 controller with an interface products selector and gal movfr operator and all gal buttons, keyswitches, etc. Unless the tanks in exceptionally good shape we'd replace that too with a submersible tank with an Allwieler pump and Blain valves, of course new traveling cable and hatch wiring is a given. We'd usually reuse the piping unless it was really old or rusted.

There's a satisfying feeling knowing when it's done the customer now has a reliable elevator where callbacks will be so rare that they'll probably have lookup our number each time.
And usually the performance is better so theyre happy right away. You can adjust the above combo to stop at floors like a well adjusted traction, it just slows to a perfect stop it never even runs in leveling speed.

Unfortunately the company I'm now working for installs smartrise and often sells half of your behind mods where they're reusing call buttons or door operators and traveling cables. Just doing a controller. And then after more persistent callbacks will go back and eventually finish selling the rest of the mod.

#32657 - 03/04/22 05:05 AM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 38
liftronic Offline
LA Elevator
liftronic  Offline
LA Elevator

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 38
US
I totally agree with EElevator, the combo that he suggests is what I would go with, and is probably the most reliable.
I would never ever recommend Smartrise controllers anymore. They are not reliable nor safe. Their tech-support is even worse. They are now offering 5 years warranty! and this means you will be stuck in the machine-room for 5 years changing the broken boards and updating software which fixes one issue but makes 100 new issues

#32673 - 03/06/22 04:05 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 16
Alex_ELMAN Offline
Miami Elevator
Alex_ELMAN  Offline
Miami Elevator

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 16
What do you guys think about GALaxy controller?

#32674 - 03/06/22 07:54 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
EElevator Offline
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EElevator  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
Personally I don't have any experience with them. There's not many around here, I've only seen one once.

That being said, I think you can't be the best at everything. I'm always wary of branch off operations of companies. In other words, in my opinion, GAL is some of the best door equipment in the industry. Their locks, operators, clutches, etc are great. So if the majority of their business is that, I'm concerned about the lack of R&D and other necessary investments in their controllers. Companies like MCE and VA controls are great at making controllers. They don't also try to branch out and make door locks and operators, they're highly focused on one goal of making excellent controllers and then supporting them.

#32695 - 03/11/22 05:05 AM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 880
jkh Offline
4 Ever Learning.
jkh  Offline
4 Ever Learning.

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 880
Even though I’m not on the forum as frequently, I’m glad to see a strong presence still here!

J

There is a lot of sound advice in this thread. I would like to add that I have been disappointed with MCEs after point of sale service. With that said VA controls and after point of sale support has always been solid with me even though I haven’t purchase much from them.

Now please let me add this. Today I visited with the team out at Elevator Controls and I will say that over the years they have been my favorite. There are too many knowledgeable people there to name and I’m not willing to share! 😁 I will tell you this their willingness to support their staff, products and you in my experience has far exceeded the other control companies!

Orlando and Darrin recommended I look at HW 620L/622L Linear Rope Gripper!

Last edited by jkh; 03/11/22 05:12 AM.

Make good choices,

JKH
#32696 - 03/11/22 06:53 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
ASME17 Offline
Delaware
ASME17  Offline
Delaware

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 7
What do you think about smart-rise? I don't recommend them but want to know your experience with them.

#32699 - 03/12/22 02:26 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
EElevator Offline
member
EElevator  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
I'm not a huge fan of smartrise. I have enough of them on my route to have dealt with alot of issues with smartrise stuff. They're geared towards making installs super easy for the install crews. Which typically means a tradeoff in reliability.

I am interested in jkh's recommendation of EC. I have only had one job with an EC controller and it was a pretty old car and I was a helper back then. I wish I could see some of their newer stuff. They're just not very prevelant around here.

#32700 - 03/13/22 04:52 AM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 16
Alex_ELMAN Offline
Miami Elevator
Alex_ELMAN  Offline
Miami Elevator

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 16
I have heard smart-rise owners are trying hard to sell the company to a bigger controller manufacturer, this might be the reason they don't care about the product quality and support anymore.

#32703 - 03/14/22 10:14 AM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: EElevator]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 100
ElevatorGuy128 Offline
member
ElevatorGuy128  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 100
I would agree with EElevator also - with the only changes being that I would use a Maxton Valve over blaine and Innovation buttons over GAL.... I just think Maxton provides a better overall ride if adjusted properly and I've had some issues with Blaine in the past.... With the Innovation buttons its just my opinion they offer a better finish look, that and the GAL keyswitches (mainly fire keys) seem poorly made and are always breaking due to all the plastic components used.

#32708 - 03/15/22 12:22 AM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 589
Jluff Offline
addict
Jluff  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 589
What about PTL fixtures. Any good ?

#32732 - 03/18/22 12:24 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
EElevator Offline
member
EElevator  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 133
No idea on PTL fixtures. But maxtons are really good valves too. Half the hydros on my route have maxtons. I'm just a little partial to Blain because I'd installed and adjusted so many of them. I dont think you can go wrong with either. Where your going wrong is installing stuff like Bucher valves that have a seperate control board and power supply to control the variable voltage valve coil. Unless your intentionally trying to put in the most complicated and highest number of parts to break system possible to try to make big money off the customer in the future it's insane. Valve technology has already peaked and been refined. There's a reason the best in the business (maxton/Blain/eco) use simple 4 valve coil valves...


The innovation buttons are really nice too. We did a mod on a tac 20 where you could baaaaarely tell if the call had latched because the blue ring around the button was so dim. We put innovation buttons with blue leds in on that job and the customer and us were thrilled with them. The GAL ones are just tanks. They seem to get corroded or dirty contacts over the decades in some systems (low voltage like mce iboxs) but I never have to go replace them because a passenger broke it like I do with tac 20 and ecospace buttons. In my experience the only time ive had issues with plastic parts breaking on GAL buttons was when whoever installed it tightened the screws way too much and cracked the plastic.

#33808 - 08/31/22 07:04 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 89
KSNY Offline
journeyman
KSNY  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 89
ESI controller, landing system and PIs. These controllers are super simple to work on and troubleshoot. Some people complain because they feel they might be "slow" to level but like them. For buttons Monitor/innovation.

NEVER SMARTRISE they are trash and if you have software issues good luck. We have spent days on the phone with tech support racking up thousands of dollars for software issues. And if you’re in NY forget about it (pun) they are on CA time so you won’t get a call back for 5-6hrs. Smartrise are cheap garbage and will never buy another!

GAL, Claddagh MCE are all good options as well. It’s all about preference but I would stay away from proprietary equipment


I like elevators and cars. Be Smart Work Safe!
#33818 - 09/02/22 02:14 AM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 8
LAmech Offline
stranger
LAmech  Offline
stranger

Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 8
For hydros I'm actually a huge proponent of the Smartise V2 ( I don't know anything about the C4). I know shoot me, but I think it is the perfect hydro mod.

I've installed like 10 of them with no real issues. Everything is compact, simple and i've never had any problem with tech support (but i am in California). If you do need software changes you can get it emailed to you and upload it yourself. Also I'm pretty sure they've practically released the parameter master list (I'm pretty sure they give this out if your company spends x amount) so you can fix a lot of stuff on your own. Also despite what everyone says, the cedes camera system is just better than tape and magnets. It's much quicker to install and when it's time to adjust you'll never have to get in the hoistway and move magnets, also you'll never have tape guide issues or noise. Depending on the AHJ the tape alows you to use virtual slowdowns, finals, nts, ets, and tsrd so I've often never had to pipe anything in the hoistway beyond pit stop switch and door locks.

I like Motion too and think it's a great product but they're stuff is much larger and requires more wires. The install never looks as clean and the removable controller door is just ridiculous in 2022. The interface isn't as user friendly and not every controller is the same. Some will have ice cube relays for different functions and some will have additional i/o boards which are stacked ontop of each other which makes getting to some more difficult. If you ever need to update software you will have to get an SD card shipped to you which takes additional time and imo they're change orders takes significantly longer and cost more than Smartrise. Also unlike the Smartrise boards which have the LEDS at the wire connection, motion puts them in all in a row so you have to search for what your looking for. Also the connection point on board is ridiculously deep which doesn't allow you to land the wire with some conductor visible unless you strip a ridiculous amount. Having said that, I have known multiple organizations to insist on Motion and everything i've heard in the field and experienced leads to me to believe they are the most reliable of any controller. Also, they are more adaptable than most, Smartrise V2 does not have the capabilities of more than 10 landings or allow you to use two soft starters if you have two pump units like many large capacity hydro's.

Now if we're talking traction I think the Motion IBox is the top of the line and the only reason I can think of to install Smartrise over it would be due to cost but I don't know enough about that aspect.

As far as other equipment goes, can never go wrong with GAL door equipment and Maxton valves. All modern generic fixtures are good imo and all propriety fixtures are junk. I know the majors have good buttons but they just don't put them in on the jobs I end up getting and I get stuck with plastic junk that keeps breaking all because someone wanted to save $10 on a button, it angers me greatly.

Last edited by LAmech; 09/02/22 02:18 AM.
#33825 - 09/04/22 12:22 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 589
Jluff Offline
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Jluff  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 589
It’s hard to argue against smart rise ease of installation, and user interface

#33840 - 09/05/22 11:14 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 16
Alex_ELMAN Offline
Miami Elevator
Alex_ELMAN  Offline
Miami Elevator

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 16
I have seen several C4 traction controllers from smartrise and have had lots of problems with them. The V2 hydraulic controller might be ok but the C4 version really sucks and is a complete failure. The boards are compact and small not because they have done a great job designing tiny boards! Its because either they don't know the required clearance between components or they decided not to follow the safety codes! The high voltage 120V inputs cannot be so jammed and small. It is simple physics and code! That's why they fail and catch fire all the time. This is my personal experience and understanding after analyzing several broken boards.

#33847 - 09/06/22 11:55 PM Re: Favorite Mod [Re: Jluff]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 202
Smitty Offline
bangyourheadhere
Smitty  Offline
bangyourheadhere

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 202
Annapolis Md.
Not a fan of Smartrise traction controls. Their processor boards are throw aways and pathetically slow. So slow in fact on this one job you can push a hall button and literally turn around to watch the other side latch. An then there are the annoying binary parameters which btw are not backed up when you do a software archive. Get one out of place after a power hit and your on the phone with their brilliant contestants. It won't be in their manual. Maybe on a duplex, 350ft/ min or less ok...Actually nothing out here these days impresses me. Ibox is probably the best game in town but MCE doesn't age well, never has. Galaxy was half way decent as an apartment system. Nothing I'd run at 1200 ft/min with a decent sized group.


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