Any idea what's going on over at Smartrise tech support? Called in yesterday at 9:19 am and got a call back at 10:29 am stating that they would not be able to get me tech support that day and to call in tomorrow. I called in this morning at 7:17 am and got a call back at 11:19 am stating that they would not be able to get me tech support today.

I was able to get an ALPHA tech on the phone 📞 on Memorial Day holiday. He was at a party I heard it in the back ground. He answered all my questions with ease.

My company has been loving smartrise for many years. But i just heard we sold an alpha controller we'll be putting in soon. Very Interested to see how that goes.

Smartrise is very irritating. I just updated software on a duplex to add a swing riser. In the software package they included a file labeled parameters that has all the parameters and what they are. Well they made a small oversight in their software and there's one rear floor the cars don't have but the door open button was enabled at that floor. Well it wasn't in the parameters. I had to call them and wait half a day for the guy to say oh yeah, change this parameter to this. It's ridiculous they give you the kiddy limited version of the parameter list. I want the real thing with every one in it. Would have saved me hours that day, and I don't want to call you and order a fish every time I need one. I want to teach myself to fish so I can do it myself. It's like smartrise wants to keep things hidden to have some level of power over their customers so you still need them.

Dang dude. Probably how Smartrise was years ago. Have you installed an Alpha controller?

Totally agree. My problems were simple if I would of had the full binary parameter adjustment sheets.

I know for a fact that Smartrise has moved its R&D and all software development to an IT company in Lebanon; that is why it is currently so messed up. Additionally, a significant number of their tech-support personnel have left the company, with many of them having joined Alpha Controller Company.

We stopped using Smartrise for over two years now, I hear they are for sale , and at a point of closing down. we have stocked boards for spare just incase. We are using Alpha for all our hydros , and they are easy and great to work with. As well We just ordered our first traction , I am sure it will go well just like the hydro. But for sure all the companies in my area have stopped using smartrise its a sinking ship.

Does anyone have the full list of binary parameters?

EElevator send me your email. I may have what you need.

I am relieved that we stopped using Smartrise controllers a few years ago. Unfortunately, the recent increase in injuries and lawsuits against companies using these unsafe controllers has caused significant trouble for building owners and innocent bystanders:

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/N...v._DELUXE_HOME_BUILDERS_CORP._et_al/150/

What do you deem to be unsafe about the controller? The page you shown unfortunately doesn’t give any case details.

Ashley, if you open the full docket and go to the first page, you will find the details. It appears that a person was injured (crushed) due to the unintended movement of an elevator. You can find it on page 6 of the lawsuit here: https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/N...A_v._DELUXE_HOME_BUILDERS_CORP._et_al/1/

Regarding your question about what is unsafe about the controller, let me explain. Elevator safety primarily hinges on redundancy. Eliminating redundancies or interpreting the safety code in a way that reduces redundancies to simplify the controller, making it smaller and cheaper, is problematic. Consider why manufacturers like MCE, GAL, Virginia Control, EC, OTIS, etc., have much larger controllers with numerous contactors, relays, wires, and boards, whereas Smartrise uses a single small board for everything. It's not that Smartrise designers are smarter than other controller manufacturers; rather, they may be bypassing safety code to make their controller compact and affordable. For instance, the code requires certain safety signals to be transmitted through hardware, not software. However, Smartrise controllers transmit many safety signals via communication networks, which are software-based, but they say because we use a specific type of processing unit it will not be considered software while it is still software.

I searched smartrise in this forum and found numerous comments where people report unsafe behavior of these controllers. Here are some references for you:

http://www.vatortrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=35782&Searchpage=1&Main=6353&Words=%2Bsmartrise&Search=true#Post35782
http://www.vatortrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=34850&Searchpage=2&Main=6121&Words=%2Bsmartrise&Search=true#Post34850
http://www.vatortrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=32451&Searchpage=3&Main=5617&Words=%2Bsmartrise&Search=true#Post32451
http://www.vatortrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=32176&Searchpage=4&Main=5556&Words=%2Bsmartrise&Search=true#Post32176
http://www.vatortrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=32144&Searchpage=4&Main=5414&Words=%2Bsmartrise&Search=true#Post32144

A big part of the problem in this trade is the push for controllers that require less and less knowledge to install. Companies want plug and play because there's less and less actually trained, intelligent elevator mechanics being brought up behind us. They want to be able to sell equipment that they can pay less trained folks to install. There's lots of guys out there putting in smartrise that couldn't wire up an inspection station on a VA controls. Look at the residential market. Inclinator ruined their products going to microprocessor controls, no code in section 5.3 can't be met with simple relay logic. But their biggest dealer in Texas (a no license state) hires guys that ain't real mechanics and they pushed Inclinator to give them something that someone who can't spell elevator can put in. Same trends are happening in the commercial side.

I guess my point is, a VA controls or mce in my opinion is infinitely more reliable than smartrise, but takes more skilled labor to install. This is why snartrise is still in business in my opinion. My company is the same. Our service guys are good. Our construction guys are knuckleheads. So our sakesfolks only sell smartrise, even though we get ate up with issues and don't make a dime off construction.

EElevator:
That is actually a problem with our industry, not making money on construction, it always had been that way. That's why we don't bother with it. Most companies do it to get the units on service after the install. The big boys make it impossible to make money on the install, all they care about is getting their proprietary equipment in the door.

I have to disagree with you on why companies buy Smartrise over MCE, in our case it is for the following reasons: 1) Faster to install as there is less wiring 2) Hall fixtures, COP, Landing System, and cart top box is all pre-wired, thus saving field time 3) At the beginning, it was just two boards and some relays, easy to keep spare parts on hand 4) smaller travel cable is less money 5) at the beginning, faster tech support time. And for us, MCE burnt their bridge with us and forced us to look at other companies due to their product issues coming right out of the factory in the late 90s, I really miss their old controller , the ones that you never needed to call them for support to get it running.
We are installing our first Alpa Traction controller next month, I won't be working on that job, but will stop in to see it once it's uncrated. Their hydro reminds me of the old Smartrise, we have a few and all problem free installs and running well.

Alex_Elman:
Thanks for your explanation , I never really thought of that aspect, as we have not had any issues, except when we go on a new job and find the last contractor turned off releveling or brake monitoring etc. I get your stance on the redundancy issue with the software, but if they truly don't comply, do you not think someone at UL/CSA or a AHJ would have called them out on it by now? of course that reminds me of the dmc controller.tank set up. I complained about the motor leads not being in conduit between the tank and controller, was told by the State it was ok, well until we did it on a job site, with a MEI tank and controller, then it was a violation.

Ashley,

I'm glad to hear that you haven't encountered any issues so far, and I hope you never do. As elevator experts, our primary goal is to prevent injuries and technical problems. However, when such incidents occur, they can lead to frustrating and challenging situations, including lawsuits. The critical question in these scenarios often is, 'Could this have been prevented?' Whether the answer is 'yes' or 'no,' it usually indicates a significant problem.

The choice to use an inexpensive, easy-to-install controller with fewer travel cables might have seemed advantageous initially. However, the question arises: is it worth compromising safety and facing potential legal repercussions?

To address your point about UL/CSA, TSSA, and other organizations, it's important to note that they are private certification bodies, not government authorities. They offer standards and certifications necessary for legal sale, but whether products truly comply with codes can be debatable. Elevator codes can often be vague and subject to varied interpretations, which can lead to compliance issues if misunderstood. It's crucial to have a deep understanding of these codes to implement them correctly.

I have experience working with MCE controllers, and although I am no longer affiliated with them, I can attest to their rigorous approach to code compliance. They strive to interpret and apply codes accurately and even publish documents to aid others in understanding these standards correctly. On the other hand, I've heard that Smartrise has outsourced their design and engineering to a foreign company, possibly to Lebanon, which I really doubt they have good knowledge of US safety and code regulations. Below is an article that provides insight into how MCE addresses code compliance and assists in its correct interpretation:

https://acim.nidec.com/elevators/-/...ollers-and-common-misunderstandings.ashx

Again I am not affiliate with MCE, I just mentioned them because of my own experience.

Alex_ELMAN;
I remember the article well, and think about it every time I'm on a job site and I find the force relays replaces with standard ice cube relays , seems every Smartrise we take on has had the safety or door rep=;ays replaced. Doesn't help Smartrise uses those awfull little white relays for so many years.

I do see the advantages of smartrise from the installation perspective. It is faster easier etc. Maybe I'm a little old school. To me a pre-wired cop or hall station was something i was never graced with, but I was installing va controls with gal fixtures and wired everything by hand, i didnt even know prewired was an option. But it saved money, pre-wired packages cost money. Two hours of my labor to completely wire a COP vs the cost to order the package that way.

Do keep in mind, I look at everything through a service man's and long term business perspective. I form my opinions based off what i put in and what i take care of on my route and see issues with on my route. I wasn't doing this back in the 90s, so I don't have any idea about mce having issues back then, but taking care of their equipment now I love their equipment.

I cant argue smartrise is faster to put in. But is that one or two days labor worth it when you look back after 5 years and take into account warranty issues that consumed labor and callbacks? I would rather take a day or two longer and have a mce or va controls to take care of for the long term. We've been having smartrises being installed still having oddball problems. Boards going bad etc.

I'm used to installing a VA controls and usually not have a single callback in its first few years of life.

And I don't mean I think everyone installing smartrise is a knucklehead. Obviously like your company there's alotta folks putting it in for other benefits like speed. But I know my company in particular does it because it's about all our install guys can do electrically and wiring wise..