Kone ecospace floor stop tuning

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#3508 - 05/10/12 10:00 PM Kone ecospace floor stop tuning
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 Vic jack of all depts
Vic jack of all depts Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 orange county, CA	Hello, friends! So we got this Kone MX20 PMSM flat motor removed, rewound, re-installed, set the resolver angle, polarity, tach polarity, did a shaft learn, adon learn, and this thing now runs on automatic, to all floors! Hooray! Thanks to all of you, my friends! Only thing is this, when it comes to a floor, it levels in normally, then it comes to an accurate stop normally, then the c/o doors open up. All good so far. When the doors are about 3/4 the way open, you can hear the main brake set- "clunk". (Is that a selling point?) Anyway, very typical, and all good so far. But, after the main brake sets with that characteristic "clunk", the then car drifts up about 1/2". which is about 12 mm. No bueno. It stops, but only after it has drifted up. It must stay at floor level, after the brake sets. We are re-adjusting the brake shoes, looking for .004", which is roughly 0.1 mm. We are checking the loadweighing. Any other ideas? Thanks in advance! Last edited by Vic; 05/10/12 10:04 PM.

#3509 - 05/10/12 10:37 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: Vic]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	you have brake issues. sounds like a dampening timer almost like a reverse pre-torque. lemme make a phome call to our Kone guru. see what he has to say. Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

#3510 - 05/10/12 11:39 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: ifrratedpilot]
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 Vic jack of all depts
Vic jack of all depts Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 orange county, CA	Thank you

#3511 - 05/10/12 11:42 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: Vic]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	im thinking resolver angle not set right, but i take you are getting zero faults. got a call in to my guy, waiting for him to call me back. we will know instantly what the deal is. Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

#3513 - 05/11/12 12:16 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: ifrratedpilot]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	my guru says your main brake isnt setting right, says .003 when picked. says you need to be able to spin the washers on the main brake when set. says to check e brake set time and change to 3.0 seconds, thats your delay when doors open. says default is like 30 seconds. lemme know if this helps, if not, provide more detailed info, and we will get it nailed down. Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

#3514 - 05/11/12 01:22 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: ifrratedpilot]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 18 iuec4me stranger
iuec4me stranger Joined: May 2012 Posts: 18	the clunking will get better after you adjust the pod --lol brake pod to .004 -do you have the brake tool

#3516 - 05/11/12 04:48 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: iuec4me]
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 14 theshaft stranger
theshaft stranger Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 14	The brakes should be set to .002 the noise will still be the but quiter ifratedpilot is right on the washer that is under the 15/16 head nut on both of the brakes you should barley be able to turn the washer with your fingers. You do not need a brake tool easy way to pick and drop the brake is to only push a direction on the cartop inspect station as it will only pick the ebrake. When done with the ebrake then just go in the controller swap the J4 connectors on the main and ebrake modules under the drive and the brake contacts XST on the brake modules as well. Now you have made the main the ebrake and you can use the inspection station to pick and drop the brake again to gap it then when done put it back how you had it. Then make sure to setup the brake contacts turn the screw it till you hear it click then unscrew till you hear it un click then 1 full turn out they will be set perfect you will get brake faults if you do not do the 1 turn out.

#3517 - 05/11/12 04:54 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: ifrratedpilot]
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 Vic jack of all depts
Vic jack of all depts Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 orange county, CA	Originally Posted By: ifrratedpilot my guru says your main brake isnt setting right, says .003 when picked. says you need to be able to spin the washers on the main brake when set. says to check e brake set time and change to 3.0 seconds, thats your delay when doors open. says default is like 30 seconds. lemme know if this helps, if not, provide more detailed info, and we will get it nailed down. Thank you very much! Going out there tomorrow, will check on that stuff. Wow, .003, really? I can say almost for certainty that it is not set that close now. Maybe a wide .004". But we will set it to .003".

#3518 - 05/11/12 04:58 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: iuec4me]
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 Vic jack of all depts
Vic jack of all depts Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 orange county, CA	Originally Posted By: iuec4me the clunking will get better after you adjust the pod --lol brake pod to .004 -do you have the brake tool No, what's that for? (probably for adjusting the brake, duh!) We were swapping main brake for emer brake power supplies in the controller. Then go back to the car top, push the car top inspection button, which picks the emer brake. but when you swap the wires main for emergency, it don't know which brake it's picking, that way you can adjust each brake one at a time. Then put them back right when you are done. Maybe a bit slower than the portable brake power supply, but at least you can pick each brake. Is that what you mean, by "brake tool", the portable power supply? Last edited by Vic; 05/11/12 04:58 AM.

#3519 - 05/11/12 05:02 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: theshaft]
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 Vic jack of all depts
Vic jack of all depts Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 orange county, CA	Originally Posted By: theshaft The brakes should be set to .002 the noise will still be the but quiter ifratedpilot is right on the washer that is under the 15/16 head nut on both of the brakes you should barley be able to turn the washer with your fingers. You do not need a brake tool easy way to pick and drop the brake is to only push a direction on the cartop inspect station as it will only pick the ebrake. When done with the ebrake then just go in the controller swap the J4 connectors on the main and ebrake modules under the drive and the brake contacts XST on the brake modules as well. Now you have made the main the ebrake and you can use the inspection station to pick and drop the brake again to gap it then when done put it back how you had it. Then make sure to setup the brake contacts turn the screw it till you hear it click then unscrew till you hear it un click then 1 full turn out they will be set perfect you will get brake faults if you do not do the 1 turn out. Heh heh, I was typing my last response to iuec4me, before I read your post! Ok, so that's how you set the switch screw, thanks. We guessed something very close to that, but it's good to know. .003" on the brake, ok, that's really, really close! Thanks for your input!

#3523 - 05/11/12 07:21 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: Vic]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	let us know what you find. Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

#3525 - 05/11/12 11:33 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: Vic]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 18 iuec4me stranger
iuec4me stranger Joined: May 2012 Posts: 18	yes that is what I was referring to -pretty slick lil gadget -makes it alot easier - Last edited by iuec4me; 05/11/12 11:36 PM.

#3528 - 05/12/12 07:01 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: iuec4me]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	thanks for letting us know what you found. sitting here waiting wondering. Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

#3529 - 05/13/12 06:53 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: ifrratedpilot]
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 Vic jack of all depts
Vic jack of all depts Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 orange county, CA	I've been remiss to update you, my esteemed colleagues! Sh#t, I've been so busy, sorry.. If I am on the car (245#), it stops accurately at all three floors, up and down. But if I get off the car, it will stop just fine to all floors up+dn, EXCEPT the top floor. Going to the top empty, it comes in very controlled, stops, then as the main brake is setting, it rolls up a bit, trys to level down, 61u+61n high), sets the brake, rolls up, etc, etc, then after a number of tries it faults out. I suspect it only does this at the top floor, because all the host ropes are hanging down the cwt side. We got both brakes pretty close, about 003", but Monday I'm gonna do them again. Is there a timer that holds anti-rollback torque until the brake has well and fully set? I was so busy Friday, I didn't check loadweighing, but will Monday Thanks everybody

#3530 - 05/13/12 10:29 AM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: Vic]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	lower your e brake set time. Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

#3531 - 05/13/12 12:00 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: ifrratedpilot]
Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 885 jkh 4 Ever Learning.
jkh 4 Ever Learning. Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 885	Vic I'm just thinking outside the box! How close is your terminal limit switch when the car is at the top landing? Make good choices, JKH

#3532 - 05/13/12 12:48 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: jkh]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	you have to be able to spin those washers, give them more clearance. Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

#3534 - 05/13/12 02:43 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: ifrratedpilot]
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 14 theshaft stranger
theshaft stranger Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 14	There is a timer for the ebrake set time menu 5 sub 10. It does not sound like your problem if the washers do not spin you are picking the brake. In your drive book check out the part that talks about fine tuning the resolver angle page 35 where you run it the heavy direction between the same floors then check 6 sub 71 give it a read it might help. Do you have rollback or roll forward at mid shaft there are also parameters in the drive to adjust rope weight or balancing errors. Also have you checked to make sure the load weighter is good with test weights menu 5 sub 1 shows you what percentage it thinks it has of capacity.

#3535 - 05/13/12 06:44 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: theshaft]
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 Vic jack of all depts
Vic jack of all depts Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 565 orange county, CA	ifrratedpilot- We have been spinning the washers, making sure the mechanical brake release linkage is having no effect on the brake when it is set. We went so far as to take the actuating arms off the brake entirely, (washers spinning freely)just to completely rule that out! While the eBrake set time should be low, to prevent heating of the ebrake coil/armature, it cannot be a substitute for the main brake not setting properly, or a problem with load weighing, resolver angle, etc. But yes, we lowered the eBrake set time to 3 seconds. IIRC, that is the lowest time that can be set with that parameter, so it would not help to catch the car on the initial stop. Therefore, the eBrake cannot remedy this issue, right? The car is rolling upward, during main brake set. By the time the brake "catches" the car, it has rolled upward far enough for 61U to go dark, initiating down re-level. (I still like to think of it as old-school "LD" going high!) I'm not sure what other people mean when they say the terms "rollback" and "rollforward", but this car "ROLLS UP", before the main brake catches the car. When I was at Otis, we called this "rollback". theshaft, We will check your suggestions tomorrow, Thank you everyone very much for your input, it is sincerely appreciated. Last edited by Vic; 05/13/12 06:45 PM.

#3536 - 05/13/12 07:46 PM Re: Kone ecospace floor stop tuning [Re: Vic]
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 ifrratedpilot journeyman
ifrratedpilot journeyman Joined: May 2012 Posts: 64 South East US	Originally Posted By: Vic ifrratedpilot- We have been spinning the washers, making sure the mechanical brake release linkage is having no effect on the brake when it is set. We went so far as to take the actuating arms off the brake entirely, (washers spinning freely)just to completely rule that out! While the eBrake set time should be low, to prevent heating of the ebrake coil/armature, it cannot be a substitute for the main brake not setting properly, or a problem with load weighing, resolver angle, etc. But yes, we lowered the eBrake set time to 3 seconds. IIRC, that is the lowest time that can be set with that parameter, so it would not help to catch the car on the initial stop. Therefore, the eBrake cannot remedy this issue, right? The car is rolling upward, during main brake set. By the time the brake "catches" the car, it has rolled upward far enough for 61U to go dark, initiating down re-level. (I still like to think of it as old-school "LD" going high!) I'm not sure what other people mean when they say the terms "rollback" and "rollforward", but this car "ROLLS UP", before the main brake catches the car. When I was at Otis, we called this "rollback". theshaft, We will check your suggestions tomorrow, Thank you everyone very much for your input, it is sincerely appreciated. i'll put another call in to my Kone Guru, see what he says... Nothing to prove anymore, done it all.

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