If you've got parts, diagnostics, and literature, everythings fixable.

Problems..
Parts: Non-OEMs get bent over, price wise, leaves little room for profit or none at all, if you have to replace something.

Diagnostics: Have moved past the point of simple ASCII in and ASCII out and have moved to network protocol, making diagnostices that much more difficult to reverse engineer. And no funny stuff on the reverse engineering because it's guaranteed you will face a legal challenge upon release to the public

Literature: This used to be a gray area, but over the years has been determined that the original OEM holds the copyright, so anybody with illegal literature in their possession has broken copyright laws and liable as well. Leaves you with the choice of going out and breaking elevators, and recording your own findings, thereby creating your own literature.

Nobody but those with the deepest pockets can take up the endeavors listed above. This means OEMS battling OEMS. The days of the large nationwide independents is long gone.

"If you've got parts, diagnostics, and literature, everythings fixable."

You forgot ability and desire...

You can have all the ability and desire in the world, but if you got no parts for an ADON board, or CLC or whatever, and No diagnosics to acsertaing the problem, and no literature to describe what you're seeing on the diagnostic screen....

Very few companies are going to let you sit there, with your privates in your hand, while you figure out how to set a lon address. They'll keep it till they can't make money and then they'll lose it.

Either back to the original OEM, some OEM that's put in the time and money for R&D, or some other sucker that sends their guy with their privates in their hand as a troubleshooting tool... But one with plenty of desire and ability...

And I understand desire and ability. To take on a piece of what is to you "Foreign" equipment, you had better have plenty of it. You guys working for independents, know what I'm talking about..But if that's all you got....Well.......

you know what i mean by ability and desire, i see guys every day that have no business in the elevator business...

I don't know what's happened. I talk to guys everyday, that don't have the simplest grasp of what they're doing. Is it NEIP's fault?, companies lack of training?, different generation and I've become and old fuddy duddy? Hell I don't know.

A lot of these guys WANT to do it, but are just overwhelmed.

I agree... I just started on my 33rd years as an IUEC Mechanic/Adjuster. Worked for the big O from 1980-1995, then went to TKE as a regional adjuster, came back to the big O in 2008, and took a Route mechanic job combination repair/troubleshooter. About a year ago, O bought a large mom and pop shop and sent me over here because of my troubleshooting ability as well as sales ability. We are wide ass open, and the repair and MOD sales are overwhelming even in this troubled economy. Problem is, no qualified men to do the work. The IUEC lost over 30% of its membership in this Local to the economy, basically weeding out the deadwood.

I just don't understand these younger guys today, I guess to them it's an easy paycheck. I had one helper say to me " Screw it, leave it for the adjuster "... I said " Pal, I am the adjuster "... his ass went on the bench...

You got a year on me..I've just got 32 years in..LOL...

It was different back then. The industry and technology has changed tremendously.

I wonder....
When I was a young guy, I'd hear the old guys bitch and moan about the good old days (Guys who had been in the trade in the 40's, 50's, 60's....) And I thought in 1978...Damn I missed out!!!LOL...

Wonder if I just turned into the old guy sometimes????

We all take our places as the "old" guys What we consider the good ole days would be intolerable to the old farts that are not with us anymore.

I noticed a few years ago before the economy went bad that many guys got all the perks and fringes of guys with years of experience without really having to show much skill.I saw helpers demanding 2nd zone expenses and actually getting it. Of course now the shoe is on the other foot with very few helpers and many mechanics having to work as a mechanic's assistants. I taught our 4th year NEIEP classes for three years and got tired of hearing 30 yr old men bitch at having to go to school one night a week for classes taught at an 8th grade level. I went to school for years four nights a week doing math problems most of these guys could only dream of. I do think the trade was better years ago but then again I am now one of the older guys.

I agree with you 100%. All the ability and desire in the world won't get you the parts or the software needed to fix the unit. Salesmen takes these things on knowing that for the most part they are pretty reliable....until they lose a major board or drive. Meanwhile customers unhappy with the big OEMs are more than happy to try us . I do know there is enough old crap out there for me to work on to last me until I retire. You can work on anything with service tools and literature if you can get it.

I see alot of negative comments on here about a younger generation of elevator men coming up -well to all of you einstien genius types who walk on water good for you -yes you are great I work around alot of those types where I'm from -nobody has seen everything and knows it all -take the time to teach and pass on what you know to the willing and hungry coming up -if the young mechanic is trying and willing then he will prevail with the help of the more skilled and experienced --we were all young dumb and full of well u know at one time in this trade -I remember when I saw my first otis ucl controller and watching my first mechanic just listening to the relays pick and knowing which one was not performing -I thought wow there is no way I would ever be able to do this --I am now a route mech myself -still getting stumped every once in awhile --take the time to pass on the knowledge for our brothers and our safety

I've been around enough that I don't care who gets the credit, which elevator is better than the other one..

The only good elevator is a running elevator..

Liked the old C-Base logic..had worked on many of them down the shore..65u controllers w/advancer motor selectors 500fmp cars..good stuff early elevonic logic here...

Hey brother, when I did teach I did have a small handful of really devoted students. It was a shame to have them sit in the same class with all the guys whom could care less. I am not just talking about guys with electrical skills either. This trade has room for guys with great mechanical skills to achieve as well. I encouraged them to also seek out training beyond what NEIEP could provide. But I do notice a lack of hunger to succeed in a good deal of our young guys coming up. I know there are young mechanics out there that will succeed and carry on long after I am gone. But there are several guys that get in the rut of " let him figure it out, or I don't get paid enough to worry about the problem". If anything at all I have realized that no one person alone can know everything there is to know about this industry. That is what is great about this forum because you can ask questions and get help from other experts all across the country. Work Safe.

"The older I get, the better I was"

8^)

There is something to be said about the people you surround yourself with!

JKH, very very well put. I wish I had come up with that one.

Does any one know anything about the tke icon controller?

I am working on on an icon controller and getting a 1034 fault do any of you have experience with that?

Thanks Solidstate

In the few years of my life that lesson I hold as my most valuable.