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#4238 - 08/04/12 09:54 PM
Advice on a push button station/ Concord
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
stevewaclo
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
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Hello all,
The Northern Nevada Children's Museum was broken into a few days ago, and after forcing an outside door, the perps found themselves in the first floor elevator lobby with no access to the main part of the building. They had probably seen too many movies where the hero tears off a cover plate and bypasses the system with a bobby pin. Apparently, their talents ended at the "tear the cover plate off" part, and after they pried the push button station out, they were stumped. Unfortunately for the folks at the Museum, the box dropped to the end of it's cable and the first floor station (of 3 floors) on this Concord Horizon (I believe) has not worked since.
A local repair company looked at the situation, disconnected a ribbon cable to disable the station and provided a $2550.76 proposal for replacement of the station. I'm a retired EE who ocassionaly volunteers at the Museum and took a look at the panel today. Other than the removed cable, no obvious signs of damage and I was tempted to plug it back in and check for symptoms, but thought better of it.
I'm in no position to make a judgement on the fairness of the repair proposal and certainly don't want to get any Forum members in hot water with a local provider, but would appreciate guidance on how to proceed. The organization that made the proposal also has the service contract and I suppose one place to start would be to get a second opinion. Also tempted to write down all the wire colors, pull the box, do some minor disassembly and inspect for mechanical failures. Hard to believe any electrons got jarred loose and a bad/broken connection would seem more likely. Obviously the service company does not want to go to component level inspection, but the museum simply does not have funds for the repair.
Also, next week, we'll check with the Carson City, the buildings owner to see if there is any insurance coverage.
Any advice from the collective wisdom of Forum Members is appreciated.
Best wishes
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#4241 - 08/04/12 11:56 PM
Re: Advice on a push button station/ Concord
[Re: stevewaclo]
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
Broke_Sheave
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
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Hi Steve.. It appears Concord was purchased by Savaria Elevator. You might check out Savaria site and see if anything's still supported over there for Concord. http://www.savaria.com/products/home-elevators/index.phpIf it's just a relay control, you can probably use the diagram and wire new buttons to the control. You can have a COP probably made at a local fab shop, purchase some 3rd party vendor buttons and wire it in to the control.. If it's a processor control the buttons are probably still discreet and you can do the same thing. I doubt Concord used any kind of serial link from the buttons to the control.. Good luck.
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#4253 - 08/05/12 08:18 PM
Re: Advice on a push button station/ Concord
[Re: cmw007]
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 565
Vic
jack of all depts
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jack of all depts
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 565
orange county, CA
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I'd just like to add something here-
It is extremely expensive to be an elevator contractor. This is a highly regulated industry, with many factors that increase overhead costs for the business.
First of all, union elevator mechanics have what is, compared to other blue collar workers, fairly lavish salaries, benefits far and away above other similar industries. Just being an elevator man incurs signifigant risk of injury and death, and who would want to risk their life everyday, unless there was adequate compensation comensurate with the risk? Just that fact alone justifies higher salaries for elevator mechanics, let alone our extemely varied skills. It's not like an electrician or other building trades has to hang off the edge of a temporary platform 300 feet in the air, holding a 1/2 drill motor by one hand to drill a 5/8 hole into an overhead machine beam with hot shavings falling down their shirt everyday. Workers in other industries just dont have the same risks we endure everyday. Maybe steel workers, but they dont regularly work around rotating machinery, high voltages, nor spend time in tight enclosures with equipment whizzing by just inches away from death. But I digress.
Secondly, because of the insurance requirements, there is a high cost of overhead just to have the doors open, even if no work is being done at all.
Thirdly, because this industry is so small, parts costs are out of proportion with their apparent worth, compared to mass produced products in other industries.
These factors mean that elevator services cost noticeably more than other building trades, and more than other industries.
These costs show up everywhere, like in repair proposals, because the cost of doing business has to be recouped accross the board. We're not in business for the glory, that don't pay the bills.
Just a little perspective on the elevator industry for ya, in case you weren't versed on it.
And yes, I got it that you weren't questioning the relative worth of the proposal. Just wanted you to know "what's up wit dat"!
Cheers!
Last edited by Vic; 08/05/12 08:22 PM.
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#4255 - 08/05/12 08:41 PM
Re: Advice on a push button station/ Concord
[Re: Vic]
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
stevewaclo
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
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Thanks to everyone who responded, and Vic too, for your clear description of challenges faced by businesses and workers in the industry.
Just an aside: We don't have too many tall buildings in Northern Nevada, but I worked on a project in Reno a few years back where the old 30 storey, Golden Phoenix Casino/Hotel was converted to the Montage, a luxury condo building. State of the art Schindler elevators replaced the old technology Haughtons, and I still remember the first time I rode the new ones. As I observed to my homies, the closest mankind will ever get to Star Trek transporters :-). Step in at ground level, push 30 and in what seems like seconds, the doors opened at the top, as accelerometer controlled motors smoothly took the car to the top. No discernible G forces. Doors close, doors open, and there you are!
And can't say enough about the install crew. An extraordinarily smart and funny bunch of guys...and did I mention brave? Yipe!
Before I go further with the advice I've received on the Concord, if someone would email me at stevewaclo@yahoo.com, I'll attach the photos of the unit in question, which could be posted here by someone who is familiar with the process. Or just steer me to the instructions. As mentioned, no obvious damage and I'm thinking, since it may need to be replace anyway, I can't do any harm with a careful examination on my workbench.
Finally, I believe I have discovered how a least some of the best and brightest in the elevator industry spend some of their spare time!
Thanks again, all.
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#4259 - 08/06/12 12:46 AM
Re: Advice on a push button station/ Concord
[Re: stevewaclo]
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 53
selfproclaimed
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 53
Big Apple
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Dupline boards need to be programmed with a hand held tool and the cost is around five hundred. When you order the board Dupline will sent it loaded for a nominal fee, just give them the job # and they will do the rest.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
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#4260 - 08/06/12 01:08 AM
Re: Advice on a push button station/ Concord
[Re: selfproclaimed]
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
stevewaclo
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
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Thanks selfproclaimed! Think I cracked the code for pictures. Let's see. Photo 1Photo 2Photo 3
Last edited by Administrator; 08/07/12 05:43 AM.
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#4768 - 10/05/12 06:44 PM
Re: Advice on a push button station/ Concord
[Re: stevewaclo]
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
stevewaclo
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
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Hello all,
Trust this finds everyone well and busy!
On all Forums I have joined, the biggest negative is folks who spend a lot of members time with an inquiry, obtain numerous thoughtful, detailed responses...and then disappear, never to be heard from again :-(.
To battle that unfortunate trend, here's a very brief ('cuz that's all I ever got) summary of the disposition of the damaged control box at the Children's Museum:
After weeks of no response from the Mgr., finally heard that the city, who leases the property to the Museum, sent a tech over to look at the box. Apparently he made a thorough visual examination, with trained and experienced eyeballs, and was able to make things right by ???. Asked the Mgr. for contact Info so I could share details with everyone here who was involved (thanks!), and she told me she via email she "...did not feel comfortable with that...", but thanks for your assistance. Huh!?!?!
Very annoying.
Anyway, thanks again to all of you who made time to contribute!
Best wishes.
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