Hello

Is there a software or website for user manuals for lifts?

I mean that if I go to fix KONE, OTIS, THYSSEN, etc elevators and I can see error code or errorled on the control board...I could check the code or led meaning online in few seconds.

Like they have these sites and tools for cars...OBD codes http://www.obd-codes.com/

No, because when someone gets killed they look at who reset the fault. Better off getting an elevator company, people's life's are at stake.

There are no specific web sites that will supply you with this info for everything. All of the companies have proprietary info for the. Out part. If you are looking to find a specific error code for a specific problem I'm sure someone can help,you here..liability insurance for elevators is very high for a reason. Resetting an error code is not going to kill someone but you should have specific elevator experience if you work on them because if someone gets hurt you will have liability on your hands...understanding elevator basics can get you out of many problems and tenacity will get you a bit further. Having the basic fundamentally for elevator,troubleshooting and good friends will get you through....

zammy
you need to give the specific fault for that specific elevator and someone will try to help you. But Elev te 79 has it right, resetting a fault that you don't really understand can cause you some problems and there could be liability involved.

That's scary!

Well

I do not understand. Would it not be better to know the error code You are dealing with rather not knowing it ? Without knowing it You just reset the system not really knowing what was wrong in it?

What is the difference in liability between cars and lifts? Is it not allways a responsibility of company making the repairs?

And

I have to be more clear. My idea was that is there this kind of site for elevator professionals?

I do understand that repairs has to be allways be made by professionals.

Zammy,
As it has been explain already.

THERE IS NO SUCH SITE FOR ELEVATOR ERROR CODES.

Error codes are generally proprietary information that each manufacturer designates to each of their models. Many different models = many different codes!

Now let me try and explain the difference of liability from cars to elevators. The person who owns the car usually is the operator of the car. The people who use elevators expect the owner to maintain their safety while using thier elevator. If you are resetting the system, then you are not maintaining it safely. If someone is injured using your elevator, and you have a history of just resetting the elevator system, you are negligent and liable...

Let me ask are you the owner of the elevators?

Zammy,
I meant to include this as well. If Someone were to give you help and guidance in repairing an elevator. And someone was hurt after you tried to fix it yourself. Not only are you liable but so is that person.

I try keep this in mind while I am posting!

First
There is no such thing as propriety information. All the information has to handed ower if asked by the lift owner.

So this means that if this information is somewhere to be found and is correct as in the original manual You can not be responsible of any misstakes made at site.

If I tell my friend there is gun in My house and he goes and shoots somebody with this gun am I responsible for murder?

It's called copyright...easiest way to say it,,,someone owns it,,you have to pay to get it!

Not possible that this kind of information is under copyright.

That would be agains the free competition policy. At least in europe there is a law that restrict any company policy that is retricting free competition in the industry.

You can read more and be supriced

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/competition/index_en.htm

But it is still,copyright owned,,thst was a case years back of the the big four doing a cartel,,company owned things are copyright and can't be published anywhere without permission,,,includes,codes,as,well,,even if you are in usa,,still copyright belongs to whomever owns it!

You can write copyrite to any paper but it doeas not mean it IS copyright.

Big four OTIS, KONE, SCHINDLER and THYSSEN are actually continuing the cartel IF they claim this kind of information is under copyright and nobody else is permitted to publish this kind of information.

Nobody can not not own this kind of information!!! Of course they can say it´s copyright but in real life it is not.

If would publish error codes from OTIS manual to internet You really think they would sue me?

Maybe I should test this

This is as stupid as to claim that I cant sing a song in karaoke bar becouse I do not own copyrights to that song

Zammy,
Do you have the error codes you wish to have!

I suggest you call the company whose error codes you are seeking. And if they say "you can't have them" then you take the time and put your own money out and try and fight them.

When your done come on back and let us a know how you made out!

Source code, Windows has it as do other types of programs, these are the porperty of the manufacturer. They do the R&D, they spend the money and resources to come up with this stuff. If it was not copyrighted, there would'nt be any incentive to develop. As others have noted, this is NOT like "hacking" the source code on a PC, there are life safety issues involved, would you like to have to explain to the family of someone that was killed due too much knowledge and not enough wisdom?

jhk

I have lot of error codes. I might publish them all. I am safe.

Just for the sake of argument...I could claim that I have tested the lift and have these errorcodes under these conditions. For example I tested that if I prevent the door not close i get errorcode XXX, If I leave brake coil without power I get errorcode XXX. If I open the safety circuit from overspeed governor I get error code XXX, etc

Who is to say that I have not "self tested" tested all the error codes in the manual if I claim I have tested all the error codes in real life?

Is there a copyright preventing me to test all the error codes in real life and make my own "manual" for error codes?

I think not

Zammy

Try elevatorshack.com.

Zany,

I think I am starting to understand what you are looking for.

Doggie,
Great suggestion! He may find what he is looking for there...

It´s an other forum. Thanks.

IF there were this kind of site on the internet that You could easily browse Your way to a specific error code online and get the information instantly in the elevator machine room.

Would You use it?
Would You pay to use it?

Just as I suspected...

Dear JKH

I have been searching and searching this kind of service.

So I started to read the net is there reason. So far I have not found a reason.

Some say it is copyright. Some say these cartel companys own this information. But so far I can see that the guys making these claims are propably working in these companys.

And it is true that when there is no service like this it makes one think that maeby there is market for this kind of service.

Do You think it is wrong? Or is there a reason for beeing sarcastic about this?

One question,,,are you a qualified lift engineer,,yes or no?

Yes I am.

I worked with fault finding for twenty years now. Have worked in big and small companys and different countrys.

My experince is that these cartell companys are trying to make it difficult for others to fix their elevators. Of course they do. How else they could have prices of repairs so high?

What happens is that there are no competition which makes the cartell eaven stronger. And it is the end user the lift owner and the people who are paying overprice of monopoly service when they have no choice but to buy the service and repairs from the original lift manufacturer.

It was a same thing with automobiles years back but the codes and tools are now free for anybody.

More knowledge more competition. Right?

I'm afraid i am with Zammy on this one.

As long as the info stays within industry professionals then it could only be a good thing.

In the automobile industry the car manufacturers tried to do the same that cartel lift companys are doing still.

They tried to have this repair information as their own information and to be used only in their own car workshops. They were claiming that the quarentee of car would be only valid if the car owner uses only car manufacturers "own" service and repairs. After a short while this was banned by law.

The new law allowed small workshops to buy tools and information for a reasonable price. Manufacturers of car´s have to give this information to anybody.

For me it hard to understand why is this any different in elevator business?
I JUST DON´T GET IT !

Are you a qualified lift engineer,,yes or no?.??

Can You read? Yes or No ?

#12635

Go ask any of these non Union places how safe the industry is. Information is just that, without the skills or knowledge to use it, people die, end of story. You repeatedly reference the auto industry, when the two do not even compare. owner of vehicle is typically the driver, driver is responsible to have a legal auto on the road. Brakes fail, driver dies or is injured, OR CAUSES SOMEONE ELSE TO BE INJURED, driver gets sued.

Lifts are not the same, the owner may never even ride the elevator that is used 1000's of time a day. Owner is still responsible to have lift in proper working conditions, and to meet code, these conditions are tested. His liability by allowing some asshat with Internet access to troubleshoot and or repair his elevator would be catastrophically high.

You wish to compile a list of elevator codes to publish on the Internet, cool have at it. You ask me would I use it, sure I do not turn away advice or tools when they are made available. You ask if I would pay for it, nah, that's not how we roll. Take your asshat self, go make your website, and get sued by the "cartels" that you have no fear of. I know for the company I work for, our lawyers have lawyers for their lawyers...

Yep,,I can read,,,,are you a qualified lift engineer,,and what qualifications do you have?

Zammy,
I've been around for 28 years. I've worked for big and small companies. I've worked with great mechanics and great people (not necessarily the same thing). I've heard a lot of tall tails, big boosting, and too much hot air.

The only thing I will agree with that you said is "The new LAW allowed the small shops to BUY the tools and information for a REASONABLE PRICE". This of course is a European law your referring to.

I think if the companies like the big 4 should be willing to sell thier prints, manuals, service tools and support at a reasonable price. And when a service tool or controller needs an updated software to be installed it should be for sale at a reasonable price too.

I am not interested in reading how you can do what you feel you can or should do! I would rather read a post from you helping someone who has posted a problem. Show me that side of your character. Show me your willingness to help a colleague in need of assistance. That is the side of the individuals on this sire that makes me proud to be apart of this industry.

Thats all I want. To help others.

I´m only telling these jackasses who claim that errorcodes are proprity or copyright information that they are wrong. They are either working in the cartell companys or they are very easily brainwashed. Propably both.

Silly - I am not comparing the industry in any other way than in perspective of law. If the repairs is made by professional or not is a totally different discussion.

Koss - I concider myself a professional. What qualifications do you have? Is this really the topic here? Doeas it matter?

Thanks for the support - somebody with brains here

Hah...we know where Silly works.

And Silly...do You drive a car? If You do please stop...its really unsafe. Did You know that allready ? What a brainer.

Zammy, you've got employees of "Cartels" that can't fully work on their own equipment because only certain technicians get all of the training. My advice is to avoid proprietary units. There is plenty of work out there.

@Zammy

It may be useful, but knowing specific fault/error codes is not going to fix elevators. Experience, knowledge, understanding, proper shop support and shared knowledge between elevator men in the field and on forums such as this one does.

I do however agree with you, the big boys do all they can to try to hold captive their market and the customer certainly pays. To a large degree though, any service company is only as good as its front line mechanics and when these mechanics are joined fraternally, fault code knowledge along with associated real world experience is usually a phone call or two or three away.

It takes educated and experienced men to fix broken elevators, information is and will always be simply another tool in their bags.

A fault/error code website would have to be pretty comprehensive and encompassing to be of real value.

And yes the auto repair industry and consumers have lobbied hard on multiple fronts and have made big legal strides in leveling the field for the independent repair shop. The reasons why it has not happened in the elevator industry are likely many, such as elevator owners are at best loosely knit - no lobby power, independent elevator repair shops are loosely knit - no lobby power, the size and type of industry, etc. Are you going to take you Otis car to a Schindler dealer for repair, your Kone to Thyssen, your Ford to Chevy, your Nissan to Toyota.

For the foreseeable future, the independent elevator repair shop and aftermarket parts supplier will remain at a disadvantage and will remain playing catch up when taking on the big boys and their newest twists and technologies. I have worked for the same independent elevator company as a front line mechanic for many years, and only thorough shared experience and information with other mechanics, have I been able to succeed to the degree that I have.

A better educated, organized and proactive elevator consumer is what would be needed to bridle the big boys, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.


@Silly

Lmfao. You made some very good points, and I am willing to bet Zammy has thick skin.

Off topic

Guy walks into a bar and orders a shot and a beer. Bartender brings him his drink and says "boy, you look glum, long day?", Guy shaking his head says "nah,... all lawyers are assholes." Guy at the other end of the bar says "hey, I heard that remark and I resent it!" Guy says "figures,... you're a lawyer too?!" Guy at the other end of the bar says "What! No I'm not a lawyer I'm an asshole."

Yes I am a qualified lift engineer with City & Guilds,,Lift Technology,,UK qualification,,recognised worldwide,,,,so I ask again,,,are you a qualified lift engineers? With what qualifications,,
If you are not,,stay away from lifts

Zammy you are a scrub, go peddle your bag of tricks elsewhere. Yes I do wrk for the "cartel" companies you so love to bash here. No there is absolutely, unequivocally, not one problem, I could not solve with ANY manufacturer, ANY year. Why you ask? How can he be so smart? Because I know I have every single Union brother with me, everywhere I go, everytime I go. This industries battle lines begin, and end, with our front office personnel. The field guys, we all work for the same Union, just employed by different companies. I will be the first to say, my first troubleshooting phone call does not always go to someone in my own company.

Great example, I have never met greensleeves here on this forum, yet I can hazard a guess on his company. If I had a problem with a GEN 2 I could PM him and I know I would get an answer to my question, or be referred to someone who could(sorry for dragging your name in green, just such an obvious name, made it easy for me). This brother hood does not recognize state lines, company lines, and as long as I can understand your english, international lines. (I say that I must understand your English not because I am arrogant, but because my spanish is horrible, and my german is even worse).

So Zammy, as I can see you clearly have no concept of half of what I wrote up there, I can ascertain that you are not part of this brotherhood. I can also see that you wish to profit from this all mighty code website, that I am sure you will use us to help you propagate. This is why you have become an asshat in my eyes.

Please tell me more of this cartell business you guy´s are still running

So You help each other out and try to keep everybody else aside. Big fucking news!

You must be a asshat to say it out loud.

Well, well, well

I have decided to make a website. You guys inspired me so much

I´ll think I start with the manuals of big four.

Thanks for the support.

PS. It will be free

I was fixing this OTIS MCS -LCBII elevator the other day. I had some spare time so I tested the system.

If I

Prevent DCL, DFC or DW signal so that the door cant close I get error code 0102 OpMode DTC

If I

Prevent doors not to open or I am missing the DOL signal I get error code 0103 OpMode DTO

If I

Held the doors manually open I ger error code 0104 OpMode DCP

If I

Cut the safety circuit from E-Stop when the lift is runnig on nominal speed I get error code 0202 /ES in FR

If I

Activate the OTS input I get error code 0206 OTS active

If I

Cut the signal SE the car can not run And I get error code 0205 SE-fault. I would check SKL, THB, door bypass, fuses etc)

If I

Cut the DZ(DoorZone) signal so that there is no hoistway signals detected during the fast run I get error code 0207 DDP in FR

If I

Open the car door during the fast run I get error code 0211 /DCF in FR and if I cut in slow speed I get error code 0212 /DFC in SR

If I

Activate 8LS2 input I get error 0213 8LS2 oper.

If I

Activate input PLS1 i get error code 0214 PLS1 active

If I

Make the motorized valve stuck I get error code 0215 Mot.Vlv tim

If I

Turn 3-line power supply phases or disconnect one or two phases I get error code 0224 J-Relay. I tested that this event is allways logged when I set EN-EVT to 1 and switch off the power and the reason for this is that the three line power supply cuts down earlier than the LCBII power supply.

Tomorrow I go and make some more test and tell the result to You. See ya!

Hello, today I had the time to go to this lift again to make some more tests

If I

Make OCSS not aviable it could be a drive fault, brake fault or 8LS fault I get error code 0100 OpMode NAV. I did notice that this arrer is also active after INS before the correction run starts.

If I

Prevent the car from running in EPO (emergency power) I get error code 0101 EPO shutd. I noticed that in group or dublex the next car is allowed to recover after this error.

If I

Make UIS and DIS signal active without DZ I get error 0216 DZ missed. I noticed that this happens when LV relay is not working correct.

If I

Prevent brake current or valve current during the run I get error code 0255 brake-fault.

If I

Put current to brake or valve during the stop I get error code 0227 NST:NoBrake

If I

Make 1LS and 2LS inputs active at the same time I get error code 0228 1LS+2LS on.

If I

Make LSVF-W Drive not ready I get error 0231 LSVF-W:/DR, or during the decceleration the car speed was too high to perform ADO or relevelling I get error 0232 LSVF-W:/SC. And when I power LSVF up I get 0233 LSVF_W:P-ON.

If I

Make a fault to drive unit(motor control) I will loose the OP signal and I get error code 0234 OP lost.

If I

Mix up the interface betwen the LCBII and drive unit I get error code 0235 OP/T fault

If I

Open the landing door lock in fast run I get error code 0237 /DW in FR but if cut the DW signal during the slow run I get error code 0238 /DW in SR

If I

Make signal DFC low and SE high while the door is opening or fully opened I get error code 0300 DBP:dfc_SE. This is when the door bypass was found inactive.

If I

Make door close limit (DCL) active when the door is fully open I get error code 0301 DCL in []

If I

Make the DW signal active when the doors are open I get error 0302 DCS:DW err

If I

Make the DOL (door open limit) active when the doors are closed I get error code 0304 DOL:alw on. This also happen when I remove DO2000 fuses.

If I

Open the landing door or bridge the car door contact I get error code 0306 Hwy-Access.

...thats all for today. Next time I will test the blinking events of this system.

That is sad I know. One more way to keep the information "inside" the cartell is to keep the information away from own mechanics as well. And here they are claiming that one could simply contact them and ask...they do not eaven tell their own people. Unless You quilified as a "trusted" person.

I believe all relevant questions have been asked and answered. Lets put this post to bed.

I agree...I just keep updating my real life tests here if thats OK?

Amazing reply considering you were looking for fault codes,,,Hmm,,,.

I quess You can´t read after all.

Im testing the elevators´s and telling You the results. You said it is copyright and propriety info so I have to test in real life. Not copy from manual.

Still have not said what qualifications,,,,u have,,

Zammy your full of it.....if you are a mechanic and wasting your time on this stupid campaign, I hope the customer is NOT paying for your time, if you are an engineer then you are definitely ripping of your employer by doing this and not actually doing any productive work.
Oh and by the way most companies/employees ALREADY know the stuff you are posting, its VERY basic stuff and been around and well known for many years, and actually I DO NOT BELIEVE you are sitting there "testing" this stuff...I THINK YOU ARE A FRAUD whose got a very large chip on their shoulder.
PS why arent you posting other companies codes.....seems like you ONLY know Otis...I bet its because you came across some codes and they are the only ones you have..if not then post the others.....I bet you dont!!!!

I have to test all the other manufacturers as well. It just takes time

Just happens that I started from OTIS.

My qualification is that I understand what I read.

Owners of these elevators are allowing you to experiment with their expesive building devices? Do they understand the liabilities involved?

Ok Guys, I think this pissing match has run its course. This forum should be used as a positive and useful tool to communicate for the good of the elevator industry. I don't want any proprietary codes for any equipment posted here and I certainly don't want elevators manipulated in every configuration to see what fault codes pop up.
Zammy, I believe you've proved your point to everyone and everyone has their own opinion on the subject, whether Right or Wrong. I will delete any proprietary info. (codes, etc..) that are posted. So let's get back to fixing elevators instead of trying to break them. They break enough on their own!!

Just as I suspected...IF I TEST the equipment on my own time it not a copyright or propriety information of anybody!!!!!

Just as I suspected...Administrator is working with the BIG Boys or is affraid of them. Or was it the Union boy´s

Just as I suspected...You really don´t want to help everybody. You want to control what type of information is aviable.

By deleting this information or this thread will tell everybody that I was right.

Yes I did promice to test with the OTIS MCS LCBII blinking messages

If I

Make a incorrect leave sequence from the car roof to landing I get blinking error TCI-lock. the correct sequence is open door, switch TCI off, close the door.

If I

Make the bolts of anticreep device active I get blinking message ACS is on

If I

Make both 1LS and 2LS active at the same time I get error 1LS+2LS on

If I

Make rope brake detect overspeed or fail selftest I get blinking message RBU-fault. TCI/ERO resets this.

If I

Make Light Beam Gate active I get blinking message LBG/CSP-2

If I

Make a learn run I get blinking message Learn Run...:)

If I

Cut Se signal so that the car can not start I get blinking message SE-fault. Your best bet is to check THB, door bypass, fuses, SKL...

If I

Activate fault output AHVS that is connected to OTS input I get blinking message OTS Lock

If I

Switch Car light Swutch off in machine room or drop CarLight Relay on top of car I get blinking message MCLS/SKL-3

Thats all the test for today....Good morning, and in case I don't see ya, good afternoon, good evening, and good night!

How do You know who´s elevator this is ? Maeby it is owned by me or my friend. Or meaby it is lift that work´s but is not in use ?!

Sorry Guys, Zammy is gone. This guy just doesn't get it.He is going to get himself hurt or get someone else hurt screwing with these elevators trying to make his point. I don't want to be part of it. I wish him well with his universal code site as long as Vatortrader is not part of his process. Good Luck Zammy..........

Admin,
Thank you!

Yes-thanks!

Very interesting thread

Zammy has some good points and I agree that the industry is corrupted. Tells a lot that he has been kicked out!

I think he has played You all when he has claimed that he has tested the codes. He has not made any test´s in real life. I think the point was made really clear when he got kicked out.

Sad...so sad. Open forum run by who???

E99,
"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Yes I agree with some of Zammy's points about the Industry not being perfect. However is making the information he is referring to public responsible or irresponsible?

Good point E99.

I think information is information. There is a lot of it thanks to internet.

Responsible or not when giving information. Good question as well !!

My personal opinion is that we live in the information age and it is good thing. Giving information out does not make anybody a bad person. It is true that there might be some unprofessional persons seeking this kind of information but I think it is a very minor %.

Sharing this information would generate more competition and more knowledge for the industry. This must be a good thing.

On the other hand like E99 refers is these unprofessionals. They could try to benifit this information and make some damage BUT it their own responcebility for sure.

Zammy did have a point that i agreed totally with, but it seemed like he was on a bit of a wind up mission and everyone took the bait.

I bet he had a good chuckle to himself when he finally go banned.

I don't know if banning Zammy was right or wrong and I also understand that it was a hard call. I do hope we are not limiting any opinions here or quelling any input. Zammy was getting a pretty good beat down with logic and common sense and I enjoyed the dialog. I was hoping to see more as good points were being made and I seriously doubt the information he was posting had any significance.

You can't help what people do with information and I think it should end there.

Why should anybody be held accountable other than myself if I decide to try and fix an airplane.

I'm simply trying to point out that limiting what we discuss here could diminish the purpose of this site.

Don't try and fix people here.

Any that's my stupid opinion.

Very intresting dialog endeed.

Check this tester out !!

http://elevatorerrorcodes.blogspot.com

Likes
http://www.vatortrader.com

[quote=Otis Redding]Check this tester out

Oh Well.
Just when I was starting to feel sorry for Zammy's sad life

Ouvey....

He will get in trouble with the big four for sure, right ?

I think he is now on another forum spruking the same stuff!!!. I know what he was trying to achieve BUT still do not believe he was doing all the "tests" he said he was,In my opinion he was just rewriting information and trying to look like he knew more than what he did. And I know from experience the major companies take a very dim view of "information" being freely available, its all about ethics and intellectual property (I know I know please don't shoot the messenger)!!!

http://elevatorerrorcodes.blogspot.com

"Since I have not ever had any manuals for fixing the elevators I have had to make notes of all the real life situations on the callouts over the years. I hope my notes and test will help someone in the same situation. My test results can only give You some idea of the real problem in Your elevator troubleshooting. Be safe ! If You are not a elevator professional call one to fix Your elevator! If You have any manuals for elevator troubleshooting please send the manuals to me, thanks."

its all about ethics and intellectual property ??

Yes ethics, as in the thought of making all information freely available, means that same information can and will be freely abused. If some building manager uses your blog to troubleshoot his elevator and dies, will you simply hide behind your line of, get an elevator professional? Will you feel no remorse, or second doubts to posting all this stuff openly?

I can say this about my time in the trade, working for one of the big 4 of course, no information was ever unobtainable. If the information I needed was not readily available I was never expected to do the work. Maybe for the small Indy companies this is different, but I would expect the information that their techs have would cover 85-90% of all they would need, and that remaining 10-15%? That's what friends are for!

Feel free to post away though, will be an interesting read if the big 4 ever care to get involved. Just pray every night that no one ever gets hurt using your incomplete information.

Otis Redding,
Did you read all the threads in this post?

It's my perseption the point many were trying to make was to be responsible on how we share our information.

I like Silly hope that no one is hurt trying to use the information posted here or anywhere else.

If sharing information is important to you, I would hope you would be selective in how and who you share it with. Personally, I read all the post someone has made here when they post asking questions. I like to have a sense that they work in our field before I commit to giving them information. Only then do I choose how I intend to try and help.

I can't stop you from posting information, I can only try and convey why I choose not to!

He is illegally emulating fault codes without the permission of big four ? Are You serious ?

I think its a bit odd that "zammy" gets banned , then this Otis Redding pops up spruking the same thing......Me thinks it might be one and the same person!!!

Zammy, jkh is trying to help you . I dont know what state your in or what country
But if your elevator is commercial your going to go to jail when you kill someone.
Just hire someone

Sherlock fucking Holmes !

This is not real..zammy is only testing. And BIG Four is taking measures. I wonder who is who

Kiwi is from KONE
TCIE is from Otis

Wow 28000 views

someone should stick an add up here, you would get some great exposure

fhjgfjghjghjgfj

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjz1_3lwbTMAhUCBiwKHfIwA5EQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSchindler_Elevator_Corporation&bvm=bv.121070826,d.bGg&psig=AFQjCNHCFHo9W8OHA76cerQlZALaCWhLoA&ust=1462042205308913

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwixu_rwwbTMAhXIESwKHTb8CeIQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kone.com%2Ffi%2F&bvm=bv.121070826,d.bGg&psig=AFQjCNGmr_cbALou-FvrBdgD2ZUbfqR98A&ust=1462042227461074

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi2-N2YwrTMAhXH3SwKHcgqDPEQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AOtis_logo.SVG&bvm=bv.121070826,d.bGg&psig=AFQjCNEWt2fiWwB-7MHFIddmMade1Cj9fQ&ust=1462042297564264

some error needs a service tool reset. The cartel has its way of doing it.

I agree on that. I've been with a big four and training is somewhat self-development. You have to learn it yourself. What you only get is a simple safety training not to be caught in between

Oh I so too believe, even if there are manuals leaked, the cartel would not be affected instead got helped. We don't matter a bit. They are running a multibillion industry still and us by thousands? More buildings and city grows like warts nowadays. They can't handle it by themselves.

I got to the point that my technicians has 40 to 50 units per route a month and you tell me if it can be well manage? Oh don't think so. Bean counters wont let additional personnel. It's a Screw up management strategy as always.

We wont matter anyway so I push my luck and I'll face it myself at least, I put my eggs on my own basket now.

Lol. No such thing as proprietary info he says

If there are no laws there would be no any proprietary info. It does depend on country to country, i should say.

I wonder if that dude killed anyone or himself 🤔 ..... What a joker .... Wish I would have seen this while it was live and ongoing definitely would have hagged on him

I can't believe he thought 40-50 units were a lot for a route