Unfortunately, the elevator is down again and I'm trying to coordinate getting guys to come and get it up and running again.

It's a good point that you mentioned the overheating because one of the techs had mentioned that the elevator might have went down because the oil had overheated. They had to turn the heater.

Let me get back to you on the manufacturer. I know the controllers are made by Motion Control Engineering.

Recently Retired. had one rope hydro issue similar to this one. every once in a while, cables are out of the sheave trigged the slack cable sw. shutdown the unit. turned out to be the very tight guide shoes. replaced shoes with roller guide and that's it. hope this help.

I'm going to try it. I'll let them know. Thanks!

jkh,

Yeah, the forum is pretty great.

I'll try to get all the info for you later today. I'm trying to coordinate with the techs there and I'll try to get all the answers to your questions.

It's most likely Motion control engineering HMC-1000 controller. There is a data plate inside the controller with that information.

That's exactly what is is. Model: HMC-1000-PHC

I just talked to the tech and he says he doesn't think it has anything to do with the shoe because he said if it was, the car would shake a lot and he said it looks like it's in pretty good condition.

He said the problem is the elevator loses direction even though they set it yesterday. When the elevator starts, he said it starts too sharp. He's going to replace a tiny valve within the valve and he thinks this might be the problem.

He also said that although this isn't urgent, we should change the oil (elevator is under 5 years old) because the color doesn't look right and it looks dirty.

Other problem is if oil to hot,,thermistors should kick in,,then shutdown till cool again,,

How did he come to that conclusion?

Is the same tech there every time?

Why does he think it is losing direction?

How did he reset the direction?

Did he use a pressure gauge to trouble-shoot the valve?

What is the exact name of the part he said needed replaced?

Are you working on the answers to the questions I have asked?

I'm not sure if you are giving us bad information or if your tech is giving you bad information that you are relaying to us?

Ask the tech what the DBG is at the top and bottom? If he doesn't know what DBG means, you may want to seek out another contractor!

Let's try another route! How many hours have they been there in the last 60 days trouble-shooting this problem?

This loss of direction sounds like the level/pausing fault and not the safety gear fault. It appears to me there is 2 faults here. If the direction is stopping of loosing, it could be a trailer fault losing the up levelling imput magnet( if this has them). It does sound like you have been in the wars but it appears to me it would be possibly very hard to trouble shoot.

WorkingSuper,

I just want to go over what I see you are saying to us.

The car starts to move mostly in the up direction, then there is a pause, then an abrupt start to move again?

The car was found with the mechanical portion of the governor tripped, the car on safety and slack in the hoist cables?

The oil was found heated up to a high tempature and the oil tank over tempature switch was broken and was replaced?

The car when it is sitting idle and not being used will run the pump unit and relevel in?

And you've said the following corrective actions were taken?

A oil heater was installed?
The rails were polished?
Contactors or relays were replaced?
The oil over tempature sensor was replaced?
The piston packing was replaced?
And the oil flow was adjusted?

I am recommending you and your elevator contractor do the following;

1) Turn the power off to the elevator, place a gauge on the valve and close the hydrualic supply line shut off valve to the piston. If the pressure drops on the gauge the valve needs work.

2) Place the elevator controller on test, turn the power on. With the elevator at the bottom landing, place the elevator on controller inspection. Run the car up and watch the timing of wye and delta. If the time to transfer from wye to delta is lengthy (example would be 5 seconds) stop running the car up. Your DELX timer is bad or set too long.

3) with the controller on test and inspection, run the car up and watch if BB (the motor transfer pilot is picking up before delta. If it is then I belive the car is trying to run up while the pump motor is running in wye. If so, then when delta picks the pump would increase the pressure rapidly to the piston.

Let us know what you find...

Supply a picture of the electrical diagram as well...

Hey guys. Sorry for being MIA. The elevator was down again yesterday and it was an ordeal to get it running again. The tech said that the heater in the oil was turned off which probably caused the elevator to go down.

We did do the following:

A oil heater was installed?
The rails were polished?
Contactors or relays were replaced?
The oil over tempature sensor was replaced?
The piston packing was replaced?
And the oil flow was adjusted?

We also replaced an entire part of the controller (I don't know what). And, there were other repairs completed in the past year.

Upon recommendation of the technician, we are going to do the following:

1. replace the entire valve
2. replace the oil (tech said the color is off)
3. replace the leveling board
4. replace the old contactor

It's a lot of money to us but we really need to make sure that the elevator doesn't break down again. It's really killing us. If you guys think something is unnecessary, please let me know.

JKH, I forgot to mention your recommendations to the tech yesterday. It was a little hectic. However, I printed out your instructions and will give it to the tech the next time he comes out.

Do you guys think that I should get the manufacturer, the installer, or an engineer to come in and maybe they can see if there are any glaring problems?

Thanks again, you guys.

I don't know the company you are dealing with, but it looks like they are changing a lot of expensive parts in the hope of fixing a problem. I hope you have a full maintenance contract, one where the company absorbs the cost for a monthly fee. It seems like a competent adjuster should be able to isolate and fix a specific problem, and not just throw parts at your expense to see if something sticks. Unionized Elevator Companies have Techs that go through lengthy Apprentice Programs and ongoing training. I would make sure you are dealing with a reputable elevator company. This thing has a smell about it.

Yep,,,have to ask,,who is paying for this,,is it yourself,,or is it covered by a fully comp maintenance contract,,,this could be interesting!

WorkingSuper,

I'm with JohnJay on it seems they are replacing parts hoping to fix the trouble.

Your control manufacturer has a technical department. For a fee I'm sure they will have someone come out and help your contractor.

Unfortunately, we're paying for it because it's impossible to get on a fully comp maintenance contract when there are so many problems from the start. It's been VERY expensive.

We've been using non-unionized but I'll look into maybe alternatives like you guys suggested. Maybe it's the only way to fix this problem?

Today, I've been contacting the manufacturer to see if they can come and take a look.

Or get it in writing to say once these parts are fitted, lift will work ok,,,see what your elevator company say then!

Not to get you guys fired up, just because they are non-union doesn't make them incompetant. Many non-union shops come from and have people that were in the union and went thru the classes. My point here is even in union shops there are bad mechanics, we should help each other. A few bad ordeals by either and it gives all of us a bad scent.
Workingsuper,
your getting good advice here. My suggestion is to collect references on similar jobs, even from manufacturer and choose who you work with accordingly. It does seem as though this problem has gotten way out of control.

WorkingSuper

Forget the contactor an have them install a soft start seimens Nordic.Very easy to incorporate on a Motion Control. An make sure tech unhooks both up valve coils when sizing valve.

At this point, a technician should be camped out at your building. They should be running the unit endlessly until it malfunctions, multiple times if necessary, so they can witness first-hand exactly what is going wrong. They should be doing this before handing you a laundry list of repairs that might make the problems go away.