hello everyone im having an issue with a freight elevator its an older Otis type 13-U, manual freight car. i cant find the prints.

last time it shut down i noticed it was the basement door wasn't making good contact.

fuses check out both on the controller and generator.

brushes are good

generator fires right up

tried to boost the car an still cant move it.

basement lock made.(car is parked at the basement 6 inches above fl level)

please tell me how to check the safety or a print my boss is trying to get a print but i would like to get it running now
thank you for your help

I don't have a print for that, but Otis had some conventions.

Do you have the "C" switch in, after the genny fires up? C relay represents the safety circuit.

No after the gen fires Up C coil doesn't pull in at all. As if the controller has no power

Do you have a terminal block, down at the bottom of the control, with terminals marked C1, C2, C3, etc? I think thats DC to ground, and each terminal is farther down the line, of all the series of n/c contacts in the safety circuit. But I haven't worked on that stuff for over 20 years, so you better order a print form Unitec, if you can.

Is the car at floor level? Or on the limits?

Any motor or loop overload dashpots tripped? Is the J-switch in? (three-phase monitor, with visible contacts)

c5 is more than likely the start of the safety cct. 125vdc

Have an email address? I have something I can send you that will help you.

My email is. Yrozin85@gmail.com

So after the gen fires up C coil doesn't pull in.

As of now we got the car running had another mechanic come by an he showed me how to flash the excitor with a rectifier. After we flashed it to make sure the polarity was right we checked the brushes an adjusted all them an seated them better an the car took off but still I don't have a print for this type of controller. Also this was my first time working on an Otis so any help info on them would be great. Thank you guys for all your help an be safe guys

what do you mean by flash?

He means you shoot some voltage into it, to establish it's initial polarity. Man, that's some old shtuff. Everything nowadays is VVVF. Or at least solid state drive on a DC hoist motor. We've only got one elevator with an exciter.

ah right. i cant quite remember any otis gear with an exciter, but there is 100's of old otis lifts with gennys up to 60/70years old in melbourne still in service.in fact there is more geared/gearless umv's than solid state drive lifts i reckon which is good as it keeps us employed! i do remember an old otis guy telling me about reversing genny polarity if you lift a brush when the genny is running. also he said you can attach a battery to get the right polarity. is this what you mean by exicter as being the actual genny armature? for a lift still in service ive never had to worry about a reversal of polarity. this is weird.

I don't know what the OP is referring to, but to me, an exciter only refers to a piggy-back little generator, usually belt-driven off the motor/generator set below it. The ones I have seen provide the power for some of the starting relays, like Delta, I think, and the motor field. The only one I have on service is an old Montgomery unit, from about 1964. I have never had to "flash" the exciter either.

Sounds like the business climate in Melbourne is geared towards actually maintaining the existing equipment. That's good. Seems that here in Los Angelse, many companies are sorta dwadling around, letting cars develop problems, then pressure the customer into a modernization. No one will ever admit to that, of course. We get jobs from customers who are pissed off with their current service providers, and that's the stories I hear. Seems the global players have little to lose, when it comes to putting the squeeze on customers. Hows' the weather in Melborne?

hey vic. yeah i agree. i started with an aussie manufacturer which was bought buy otis. work for a small independant now. this aussie company had some jobs with exciters attached to the genny's mechanically on the end and self excite the motor field. never seen an otis type before. i think on initial start up they used to polarise the genny's. the business in vic/aus is that you try to maintain the lifts as best you can, most customers when its explained to them that its old equipment understand they can breakdown. plus its quite pricey to mod old lifts and tend to think thats more the reason. mostly we can get by/keep breakdowns to a reasonable level. otis lifts age well just the selectors that wear out but you can get electronic replacements out of adams for these which weve done a few times. there is still lots of old high rise lifts around from lots of makers. and the weather is getting better just on spring with summer not far away. here comes 40 degree heat!!!!

Hey Vic,
You mention a few things that have become quite apparent as of late. And they are;
1)Poor response from the "company"...
2)Pissed off customers...
3)Global players...
4)Squeezing on the customers...and I now add,
5)squeezing and pissing off the routemen.

I see a continueing (is that how you spell continueing?...ueing?) trend that will make my retirement all the more sweeter and timely. Even though we try to maintain our ethical standard's and encourage each other on, we're being pushed to the gills by the Co.. Morality amongst the routemen is tipped into the ever-so-slight nose dive configuration and we hold on doing the best we can to represent the customer and the company. We really do want to do it right. Sadly, the bean counters neglect the simple fact that revenue ain't the whole of the business. If it weren't for the customer, where would the company (and us) be? Seems greater revenue at the cost of trying to build loyalty through customer care is the goal of the Co. Gotta run my route in a blast suit, with a GPS device tracking my every minute, no time for customer questions/relations due to the shear work load...and by golly, do it safe...like according to the book man! And "Hey...routeman...why are you consistantly missing 10,12,18 services per month? If you can't do 170 plus hours a month, we'll find another who can! And oh, by the way...your calls are up again...whats wrong?" So to help us in our quandry, the Co. disolves the "unprofitable" route, and scatters the hours over the surrounding men. Yeah, that helps, now I've got 240 hours...and they've got the answer for that too. There are too many contradictions in the order of the day yet we have to perservere, try to adapt and do it gladly. It isn't like it used to be and it will never be like that again. Where will it end? See howya got me started Vic?! It wasn't supposed to happen this way...honest!

Uppo, Always great to hear from Deown-undah! The only place in Australia I've ever been to is Perth, and man, that was heavenly! Such a beautiful place, beautiful topless beach, but I digress....

elmcannic,
Sometimes I'm very glad to be self-employed, because I can make the best decisions for the safety of the public, and my own peace of mind. But I do work harder than I used to, (at least when I started), I was doing 70 hour weeks, but now it's just 40-45 hours. Ain't rich yet....

Something happened to all American businesses, over the last 30 years. The bottom line of shareholder profits is "god". I don't think that blends well with an industry where we are considered common carriers, and have to use "extraordinary care" in our workmanship. The elevator industry should be governed by safety, not profit. We also should have our own little flashing lights, that we can put on the roof, when heading to an entrapment. Dancing girls at quitting time....

"continuing" (Did that without looking it up!) :^)
"necessary" always trips me up...

hey vic, unfortunately never been to perth but told its bloody ace!!fremantle and the gold coast are very similar for the view if you know what i mean! are you are sub contractor or do you own your own company. just interested as a guy i went to trade school with(over here we are electricians(a grade)first then lift mechanics second) worked for swindler here then went to work for them in the us. i believe he wasnt allowed to work in the field. i think this was a union thing but he was a supervisor. anyway im interested how things work over there eg unions qualifications etc.

cheers mate.

Uppo, sorry for the late reply, haven't been around for a bit.

There are non-union companies, and union companies. There is no "law" that any company or mechanic "has" to be union. Generally, the global players are union signatory, as are some of the smaller independant companies, of which we are one. In Los Angeles, I think there are about 20 smaller non-union companies about town. Generally, they don't do new construction, because of the extremely long lead time it takes to get paid for the work, after it has been performed, and also the deep credit line needed to finance the parts and labor, while waiting for payment. The major companies obtain their parts cheaper, since they manufacture their own equipment. So a smaller company has a rough time quoting a competitive price on new construction. These factors have created an environment, where new construction is largely done by the majors.

In California, we have what is called CCCM, and CCCC. "Certified Competent Conveyance Mechanic, and Certified Competent Conveyance Company". Before you can be certified, you must first pass the mechanic's test, after about 4 years of schooling, which course study materials are put together by NEI, Nat'l Elev Industry Education Program. As far as I can tell, these certifications mean almost nothing, because one of my former employees obtained both these certifications, (after failing the mechanic's exam, once, or was it twice?) and he was dumb as a box of rocks. Had the "Mark of the Czar" on him, which is utter stupidity. He would shear off bolts with a torque wrench, then blame our company, because "He wasn't trained properly". Ain't that some sh*t. Couldn't find his arse with both hands, completely unsuited to mechanical work of any sort, but places the blame on the company when he fk's something up. Actually, when he sheared those escalator brake bolts off, he was supossed to be waiting safely for a big socket that was on its way, to check the brake torque, but he saw some smaller bolts, and thought he'd have a go. But I digress...Anyway, that's a bit on CCCM, and CCCC.

You have to be signed up at the union, to work at a signatory company. Since you need to take a State recognized Elevator Mechanic's Course, and since the NEI course, (administered by the Union), is the only State recognized course, I don't see how non-union companies can get their employees certified CCCM. But I think there may be an independant course, possibly recognized by the State, for non-union companies.

thanks vic for the info. im just interested how everyhting works over there as weve been told wages are very high(here is at about base rate 65k) and we are in one of the top occupations in the us. not sure if this is true. dont worry about the bloke who is clueless as weve had discussions about this as well. just cos you passed a minimal test doesnt make you smart, just book retentive. i knew a newly crowned mechanic who was working at the rialto building(which at the time was the tallest building in aus)with a guy who was told to replace the fluoro tubes in the sky rise m/room. at lunch told the lead mechanic yep its all done. we got a call later that day and half the fluoro's were still out and was asked about it and he said 'all you aked me to do was change the tubes!!' this guy was an a grade sparky and lift mechanic. go figure!!

So I take it that the ballasts were burned out?

"All you told me to do was change the tubes..." I wouldn't keep a guy like that for 5 minutes. Used to put up with crap before, not anymore. Too costly.

Our union is called the "International Union of Elevator Constructors", which in effect means Canada, and the USA. IDK about now, but in times past, our wages were calculated as an average of the top wages of the three highest paid wages in other building trades. Say, if sprinkler fitters, plumbers and electricians were the top three trades for wages, then our wages would be an average of those three. Each Local jurisdiction has their own wage rate. I think San Francisco (Local 8) is the highest paid nationwide, allegedly because they have the highest cost of living, including housing costs. I'm not sure that's really true, because Los Angeles and Orange County, (Local 18, just south of LA), has similar housing costs. One of my mechanics made about $120,000 US last year, with just a bit of overtime callbacks.

In 2001, my worst year financially, we had 17 union field employees, (8 crews, and an extra helper), and we had three jobs all over $1 million contract size, all going on simulataneously, as well as many smaller jobs, yet I didn't even make mechanics' wages! I was working my ass off! The more people you have, the less productivity you have, and the more losses due to late show-ups, going home early, inability to solve issues, poor workmanship, lost parts, etc. Plus, I used to get the bench warmers from the hall, who often got laid off their last company, because of their poor behaviour issues. Now we have a much better trained core of good employees, just 4 in the field at the moment, but the profit margin is much better. Our gross is less, but the net is a higher percentage of the gross, than it was before. People come in on time, get to the task at hand, consider it their pride to solve issues when they can, take care of the company tools, etc. So I work less now, and make more, relatively speaking. So there is sort of this invisible line, where if you cross it, and want to get big, you have to lift yourself up by your bootstraps to manage the higher workload, or alternatively, you can stay smaller, and make almost as much money. This is likely why most independants don't get really big. Their owners only have so much energy they can apply to the business in a 24 hour day.

I think Local 1, New York City, is an electricians' union, or maybe it's Local 2, idk, but one of those early union locals there in NYC were electricians. IDK if that's even true anymore, but at least at one time, they were. That sounds similar to Australia in that regard. But nationwide, in all other Locals, we are just elevator mechanics, with no electricians' license.

cheers vic, yes it was the ballasts but it was funny as the lead mechanic was a little indian guy(who was a otis freak. he knew 401's backwards and could strip a selector blindfolded!) and he went off his tree! he said 'so if the globes didnt fix didnt you think to keep going to find the fault. how are you going to fix a lift if you think like that!'

you sound a lot like our company. alot of companies over here have gone down bc they have got to big too fast. we have 7 service rounds with about 90 units on each plus we install spanish lifts to about 50 a year with about 30 blokes on contruction.

Hey Vic... Just to clear up the confusion
Local 1 is part of the IUEC
Local 3 is IBEW and has an Elevator division