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#29331 - 05/27/20 08:14 PM TAC 20 Strange Issue  
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
MulattoTech Offline
System Administrator
MulattoTech  Offline
System Administrator

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
Hello all,

I'm the System Administrator for an elevator service company.

We've taken on a job with a TAC 20, which seems to have a few problems. There was a bit of a frayed traveling cable which has since recently been replaced. However, the elevator cab continues to stop sporadically upon reaching the fourth floor. The technician has checked and ensured there are no problems with the placement of the encoder strip, as well as the hoistway magnets.

From IMS we can see that a 1086 and 1030 error are being thrown. The technician has already reset the CPU as well as having downloaded the backup copy of NV memory via IMS. Here’s where my, as well as the technician’s thinking, comes into play. If there is corrupt memory then wouldn’t IMS have downloaded a corrupted “backup” copy of that memory, only to re-download that back to the CPU when using the Service>Transfer>Download from IMS option?

We have obtained the files from a floppy disk that we were hoping would have files we could put into a folder in IMS and perform that same Download from IMS option, but it looks to no avail. The floppy disk contains 5 files with the following file names.
Code
_0c0000.dat_TAC20_03_16KNV_186
_0e4000.dat_TAC20_03_16KNV_186
_0f8000.dat_TAC20_03_16KNV_186
_07c000.dat_TAC20_03_16KNV_186
_080000.dat_TAC20_03_16KNV_186

The files located on the floppy don’t appear to correlate with any backup files which are currently located on our IMS laptop under the IMS directory, even looking in the directory that houses the most recently modified files pertaining to this particular job don’t have any sort of match either by file name or file size.

My sincerest apologies for the long-winded nature of this post, however, I’m at somewhat of a loss as of what to suggest to my technician and this one has him scratching his head. A bit of added background, every time this elevator has stopped, which was a lot more frequently before the traveling cable was recently replaced, the owner (this is located at a hotel) would simply reset the main power in order to get the elevator back into operation. So turning everything off and on again seemed to limp it back into service, however coming from a technical background and looking at this from that standpoint, my postulation is that if you want corrupted memory, that’s a great way to get corrupted files/memory, cut power to a thing while it’s thinking and then turn it back on again.

Anyhoo if anyone has any ideas or suggestions as to where to go from here please drop a comment below, it would be much appreciated! Thanks all!

#29332 - 05/28/20 01:08 AM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Indirtwetrust Offline
ElevatorPractitioner
Indirtwetrust  Offline
ElevatorPractitioner

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Local 18
The files, names, and sizes are all normal and I doubt there is anything wrong with the software. Have the tape guides been replaced? Make sure there are no gaps in the magnets on the back of the tape. Make sure the top directional magnet is 3/4”
Past the top floor. Make sure the car is leveling correctly and not overshooting and releveling. May need to do a hoistway scan if any magnets have been moved. You could also have a bad selector board but happening at the same floor makes that less likely.

#29333 - 05/28/20 03:26 AM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 77
Snkrhead Offline
journeyman
Snkrhead  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 77
Make sure there is NO GAP between s/d magnet and DTL magnet on back of tape.
Check tape guides

#29335 - 05/28/20 12:59 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 93
boomer Offline
journeyman
boomer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 93
You might check the magnet polarity as well

#29356 - 06/01/20 07:15 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mr.E Offline
stranger
Mr.E  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Another good thing to try, is performing a new hoistway scan. Sometimes the pulses get out of sync. ( slight movement of the tape, corrupted ram...)


Stay safe! You showed up with 10 and 10, go home that way!
#29359 - 06/02/20 06:45 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
MulattoTech Offline
System Administrator
MulattoTech  Offline
System Administrator

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
We're on-site right now but cannot get the cab to move at all. IMS shows it to be stuck in what I call red door mode. On the I/O screen, DLB, DLT, NTSB, and NTST are all green. The technician has attempted numerous things. I've also registered him an account on this forum so he can better explain things himself, however I'm hoping the admin approval time isn't too long.

Anyone have any ideas on what we might be able to do to get this cab going so it can perform a hoistway scan?

#29361 - 06/02/20 09:37 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mr.E Offline
stranger
Mr.E  Offline
stranger

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
On the motion diagnostic screen, what status is it showing? Safeties, selector....? It will help point in the area to look.


Stay safe! You showed up with 10 and 10, go home that way!
#29363 - 06/02/20 09:43 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: Mr.E]  
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
MulattoTech Offline
System Administrator
MulattoTech  Offline
System Administrator

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
Sorry, I can't tell you as we're not on-site anymore and I neglected to take any screen grabs of the IMS motion diagnostics screen. I'll remember to do that next time however. Thanks.

#29364 - 06/02/20 09:50 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mr.E Offline
stranger
Mr.E  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Understood. That is usually the way it works, you don’t get a reply or a call back until you are off site. Lol. Once they get it moving the hoistway scan is very straight forward and it explains what you need to do to start the scan as soon as you click on it. Good luck. Stay safe.


Stay safe! You showed up with 10 and 10, go home that way!
#29380 - 06/04/20 03:30 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
MulattoTech Offline
System Administrator
MulattoTech  Offline
System Administrator

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
We just arrived back on-site. Here is a screencap from IMS. Hopefully some of this information is helpful. I'll be standing by this post to see if anyone has any ideas or advice.

Attached Files
#29381 - 06/04/20 04:01 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
MulattoTech Offline
System Administrator
MulattoTech  Offline
System Administrator

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
Here's an updated photo I just took while the technician is going to grab his ladder to try and run the cab on inspection mode from the car top. He just got back and told me that it didn't run.

Attached Files
#29385 - 06/04/20 08:40 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Indirtwetrust Offline
ElevatorPractitioner
Indirtwetrust  Offline
ElevatorPractitioner

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Local 18
Not going to run while on INIT shutdown. First, right click in the I/O map and select 8 bit ports, then again and make sure you’re on metered logic.

That last pic is while trying to level up? Very strange that MCC3 isn’t picking with MCC2 to run the starter. I bet it runs if you I/O inject MCC3 high when MCC2 goes on. But can’t explain why it would do that.

#29391 - 06/04/20 11:06 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 93
boomer Offline
journeyman
boomer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 93
Is the starter up?

#29400 - 06/05/20 01:50 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mr.E Offline
stranger
Mr.E  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Well your hall door contacts aren’t made up in that second screen shot


Stay safe! You showed up with 10 and 10, go home that way!
#29402 - 06/05/20 02:29 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Indirtwetrust Offline
ElevatorPractitioner
Indirtwetrust  Offline
ElevatorPractitioner

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Local 18
It’s a relevel

#29404 - 06/05/20 04:02 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: Indirtwetrust]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Mr.E Offline
stranger
Mr.E  Offline
stranger

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Understood. But was referencing that his guy could not run it on car top inspection. Agree about MCC3, don’t think I’ve seen one do that before.


Stay safe! You showed up with 10 and 10, go home that way!
#29405 - 06/05/20 05:11 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
MulattoTech Offline
System Administrator
MulattoTech  Offline
System Administrator

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 31
Problem resolved. It appears there were some bent pins on the selector I believe. Once those were taken care of everything worked just fine. Thanks all for your help and recommendations!!

#29411 - 06/05/20 10:54 PM Re: TAC 20 Strange Issue [Re: MulattoTech]  
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Indirtwetrust Offline
ElevatorPractitioner
Indirtwetrust  Offline
ElevatorPractitioner

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,528
Local 18
It was probably on positive logic and DLB & DLT we’re actually both low.


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