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#4494 - 08/31/12 04:20 PM T III
elevatedone Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 127
So,I have this Dover T3 and it goes down every once in awhile,usually a 87 and 12 fault.
That would be 87-brakeswitch and 12 something going wrong in the cartop selector.

My question is when I measure the voltage coming from the selector power supply,what should I measure?
I am measuring 15 volts,that is if I am measuring the place from the power supply.

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#4497 - 08/31/12 05:09 PM Re: T III [Re: elevatedone]
Johnny Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 98
Loc: Portland. Oregon
12 is a parity error. Check placement of your BP magnets. you may want to swap PMI modules with another car and see if problem follows. Also look at your guides. They are critical. Rule of thumb--when front to back play exceeds 1 thickness of the selector tape, you should order and replace at next service visit. In a pinch, you can flip all left sides with the right sides and use the unused guides. The power supply is a 15vdc. 15.2 or 15.5 would be good. There is also 24V supplied to the selector for the outputs. You may have a line drop in voltage. I usually run my 24 volt supplies up as high as 26vdc, at the power supply, if possible. But this is your call.

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#4502 - 08/31/12 07:00 PM Re: T III [Re: Johnny]
elevatedone Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 127
Thanks,man.
You are funny,service visit!
A call back is when I go to a unit.
All humor aside,wow,1 millimeter will cause problems.
The guides were flipped a few months ago,and they still look good,but a little wear.
Will replace on next callback.

Now,anyone got an answer to a Armour dynaglide problem?

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#4516 - 09/02/12 08:36 AM Re: T III [Re: elevatedone]
Broke_Sheave Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 419
There is a life span on the PMI modules, and YES they do go intermittant...(Life Span was around 10 years)..

Change out all PMI's in the Reader box, and any others associated with it in the PMI boards upstairs.
_________________________
It Don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

Cool, Free, Johnny Smith courtesy of NPR..HERE
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/asc/asc25.smith.asx

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#4524 - 09/02/12 07:21 PM Re: T III [Re: Broke_Sheave]
elevatedone Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 127
I replaced the selector board and pmi modules also.
Just wait and see.

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#4735 - 10/02/12 07:14 PM Re: T III [Re: elevatedone]
elevatedone Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 127
Still having shutdowns,almost daily now.
Main fault,Brake fault.

Replaced every pmi module,relay,brake switch, and what not.

I was running it on inspection from the MR today and about every 5 or 6 starts( I was running it a couple of feet at a time),the brake would pick,the motor would turn maybe slightly,the stop,then the brake would drop.When I press the down,or up button again,it would run.
No faults would show.

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#4738 - 10/03/12 06:31 AM Re: T III [Re: elevatedone]
Broke_Sheave Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 419
Do you have a monitor in the machine room?

IF SO....

You can take a video camera, film the I/O's, and then walk off and leave it recording the I/O screen. You can then wade through all the video footage to the approximate time of the call back, and then slow the footage down to a few seconds before the fault occured. You can then see I/O responsible for fault.

Just a suggestion.
_________________________
It Don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

Cool, Free, Johnny Smith courtesy of NPR..HERE
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/asc/asc25.smith.asx

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#4739 - 10/03/12 07:34 AM Re: T III [Re: Broke_Sheave]
charlie Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 18
Bls module. Change it.

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#4741 - 10/03/12 03:07 PM Re: T III [Re: charlie]
E-man Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 305
Have you done a brake job? When I've had 87s, it was either the BLS module, brake contact or the brake was sluggish and/or not adjusted correctly. I would also check all connections, contacts and voltages in the brake pick/hold circuit.


Edited by E-man (10/03/12 03:08 PM)

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#4742 - 10/03/12 03:30 PM Re: T III [Re: E-man]
elevatedone Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 127
Broke sheave,very good ideal.
I will bring it up with the super.


Charlie,I need to check into that as we have had several mechs working on this problem for at least 6 months or more,then it was dumped on me.


E-man,doing a brake job is my next step if I or someone else goes.
A little short handed ,so getting to it is an issue.
That part is out of my hands,I'm just a tech following orders.

It's an old geared montgomery machine with a brake virtually the same as what is used for dover composites.
It's a mod with a dc motor and generator.

BTW,thanks guys! Some info posted here has helped me with other issues on other units.

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#4743 - 10/03/12 04:08 PM Re: T III [Re: elevatedone]
E311 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 278
Loc: DFW
If its a MECO geared machine check your brake pick and hold voltages. Most of these were 230vdc and a BUNCH of mod jobs that I have adjusted have had the brake supply topped out at 200vdc because the wrong power supply was ordered. These brakes can be very touchy if not properly adjusted and maintained.

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#4751 - 10/04/12 01:13 PM Re: T III [Re: E311]
Elevatorman Offline
Elevatorman

Registered: 12/09/11
Posts: 1
I had this very problem a few years ago. I ran the car a while before it occured. Only faulted when door preopened while stopping at a landing. It turned out to be a contact on the DZ relay. Replaced DZ1 & DZ2 relays. Good luck.

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#4753 - 10/04/12 07:12 PM Re: T III [Re: Elevatorman]
sbrmilitia Offline
addict

Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 447
Tear it out throw some swift in and fix all those problems.

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#4755 - 10/04/12 07:14 PM Re: T III [Re: sbrmilitia]
Broke_Sheave Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 419
Originally Posted By: sbrmilitia
Tear it out throw some swift in and fix all those problems.


T3 is basically a Swift 5000. True not a Futura or Meridia, but definitely it's predecessor.
_________________________
It Don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

Cool, Free, Johnny Smith courtesy of NPR..HERE
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/asc/asc25.smith.asx

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#4760 - 10/04/12 07:48 PM Re: T III [Re: Broke_Sheave]
sbrmilitia Offline
addict

Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 447
Futura just like a tac 50.....Best controller on the market

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#4767 - 10/05/12 07:34 AM Re: T III [Re: sbrmilitia]
Broke_Sheave Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 419
Short bit of history.

Swift was founded in the early 80's by a engineer, salesman extraordinaire, ex-Westinghouse/Millar engineer, by the name of Jean Pierre. The control that came out 1st was the Swift 5000. Available in either drive (GE300 or Generator) Configuration.

Dover and Otis put in several of these under a naming convention.

Otis = ModMaster
Dover = MicroModernizer 2 (MM2)

Both are identical to the Swift 5000 but with a name change.

Dover at the time was struggling to come up with a competitive Microprocessor based elevator. All they had to compete was the T2.

A deal was struck, allowing Dover to purchase copyright on all software, and hardware from Swift, and thus was born the T3, which for a few modifications is identical to the Swift 5000.

Dover which turned into Thyssen, still uses the same labeling convention for I/O's to this day on their elevators, and has purchased Swift outright for non-proprietary modernizations.
_________________________
It Don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

Cool, Free, Johnny Smith courtesy of NPR..HERE
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/asc/asc25.smith.asx

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#4771 - 10/05/12 01:08 PM Re: T III [Re: Broke_Sheave]
E-man Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 305
I heard Dover's initial T ( 1 and 2 )products failed miserably and they had to make a move, thus choosing a more proven successful control = Swift.

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#4774 - 10/05/12 07:01 PM Re: T III [Re: E-man]
sbrmilitia Offline
addict

Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 447
Tac-50 Board rack model, it same thing as a swift futura. I wish I had 300 of nothing but these on my route

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#4775 - 10/05/12 07:25 PM Re: T III [Re: sbrmilitia]
E-man Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 305
Me too. I'd give up my 80 jobs with pie plates and generators in a heartbeat.

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#4793 - 10/06/12 09:57 PM Re: T III [Re: Broke_Sheave]
Smitty Offline
bangyourheadhere

Registered: 04/16/10
Posts: 125
Loc: Annapolis Md.
Cool history. Now let me add to it. Before Jean Pierre founded Swift he worked for Millar Industries in New York. They had put his IBM SBC8825 processor board system on top of really what was Thames Valley relay controls. They called the equipment CVT (computerized vertical transportation) Hmmm. as to the Computerized Elevator Controls.All of the parameters were very very similar to Swift.. for example ASU (automatic setup)command used to be PSU (program setup). ACR (acceleration rate) used to be ACC. And so almost all the commands were changed by one letter. Sort of the difference between Spanish and Portuguese. Instead of the PMI cards they had racks with rows of modules such as Status Input, Status Output, Digitizer etc. They had a handheld tool that was a real pain to use although the Tandy computer worked on this as well. Westinghouse marketed it as an overlay product known as Macroscan, or Microscan. When I used to work for Millar we put in CVT stuff. We didn't work on Swift because at the time the two companies were in court under patent infringement issues. Jean Pierre won out and ended up making a much better controller. T III is basically a blue Swift 5000 cabinet with a Dover operator and a slightly different leveling unit.

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