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#4834 - 10/10/12 08:10 PM Dover composite  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2
marbles Offline
stranger
marbles  Offline
stranger

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2
I'm having problems with 2 Composite units. They start to take off from the floor and then they stop and level back in. Either direction. I've never really worked on this type before and I'm kind stumpped. Any help would be great. They have optical sensors

#4835 - 10/10/12 08:20 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: marbles]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 366
E311 Offline
enthusiast
E311  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 366
DFW
Do you have the prints for the job? Are they geared or gearless? Does this happen only on normal? Are you dropping the gate switch, door locks or safety circuit? "UA" for up and "DA" for down are self holding in respect to other relays-you may have a problem with the relay contacts that feed the self holding UA or DA. If it happens in both directions check your "CS" relays-the contacts on all the IBM style relays are prone to issues.

#4836 - 10/10/12 09:30 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: E311]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
galaxy Offline
newbie
galaxy  Offline
newbie

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
I second E311. Also be very careful around those old IBM relays and if you replace one, I've had the best luck with Yellowjacket replacement relays, the IBM copies you get from Adams are garbage.

#4839 - 10/11/12 12:50 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: galaxy]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 262
Philly Offline
enthusiast
Philly  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 262
I like being able to trace the circuit and with yellows you cannot. If you tape your time and bend points/replace wires/ adjust pick with the screws on you the IBM relays work well. Just slow down and start at the beginning. The worst thing you could do would to just swapping IBM's around. The wires cross up easily and the bases get bent even easier. Also check the push in coil wires.

#4840 - 10/11/12 12:59 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: marbles]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 487
E-man Offline
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E-man  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 487
I've always heard not to use the Yellow Jackets and yes the Adams IBM relays last about 2 weeks if you're lucky...

Last edited by E-man; 10/11/12 01:00 AM.
#4842 - 10/11/12 02:56 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: E-man]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 451
sbrmilitia Offline
addict
sbrmilitia  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 451
I love dover composites....off topic but Composites are king

#4859 - 10/12/12 10:08 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: sbrmilitia]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
Broke_Sheave Offline
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Broke_Sheave  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
SBRMILTIA...I get up every morning and say a little prayer for you guys. LOL..

Becoming a disappearing breed. One of my best friends, who was a composite ace, just recently passed away. Guys that know that equipment are getting fewer and fewer every day..

Cheers!!!


It Don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

Cool, Free, Johnny Smith courtesy of NPR..HERE
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/asc/asc25.smith.asx
#4862 - 10/13/12 12:12 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: Broke_Sheave]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 179
aquadag Offline
elevator lifer
aquadag  Offline
elevator lifer

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 179
NYC
Here is an old school tip from one of the old school boys that I used to work with. The IBM relays have a plastic piece on the bottom of the coil to the relay. This plastic piece starts out white. Over the years the piece turns yellow and dries out and becomes very brittle. This plastic will then break a peice off due to the relay picking and dropping. When a small piece of the plastic breaks sometime it will fall and keep the relay from picking intermitantly. The best thing to do is to take a small screwdriver or an orange peeling stick and tap all the plastic pieces till you find the ones that are brittle. When you find those they are usually darker than the rest, you break the plastic off of the relay coil altogether. I have never had a problem with these gone, But I have had so many jobs that I have cleaned up just by doing this. Those little pieces that break off can cause such nightmares that I can't even begin to tell you.
I have the composite adjusters manual on pdf if anyone wants it. Just email me and I will try to get it to you. no guarentees but I will try.

#4865 - 10/13/12 12:37 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: aquadag]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
Broke_Sheave Offline
addict
Broke_Sheave  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
Another for those who have good eyesight..

Pull out IBM relay.
Hold relay up to a light and look through the contacts.
You should see daylight through N/O contacts.
Pick relay by hand.
Now you should see daylight through N/C contacts

If Not...Bad contact.

Now when I was young and worked for an independent company, we didn't buy a relay and replace it. My boss would give me pill bottle with 500 needle contacts and I would replace contacts by hand. Pretty easy actually on the 4 pole relays. The 12 pole (Like CS) were a bit more challenging....Needle contacts could be purchased for 10 cents a piece.


It Don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

Cool, Free, Johnny Smith courtesy of NPR..HERE
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/asc/asc25.smith.asx
#4866 - 10/13/12 03:21 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: Broke_Sheave]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 179
aquadag Offline
elevator lifer
aquadag  Offline
elevator lifer

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 179
NYC
lol i had one of those bosses

#4873 - 10/14/12 01:32 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: aquadag]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 487
E-man Offline
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E-man  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 487
I have one of those IBM relay testers on the van, so far it has been 100% accurate.

#4874 - 10/14/12 02:50 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: E-man]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
Broke_Sheave Offline
addict
Broke_Sheave  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 419
Originally Posted By: E-man
I have one of those IBM relay testers on the van, so far it has been 100% accurate.


Yep...Those are indeed very cool. cool


It Don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

Cool, Free, Johnny Smith courtesy of NPR..HERE
http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/asc/asc25.smith.asx
#4878 - 10/14/12 03:46 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: Broke_Sheave]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 662
danzeitz Offline
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danzeitz  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 662
st.louis mo
Marbles, Without a print in front of me I dont remember the contact. But you should have a contact that keeps you from seeing your leveling contacts when you take off....... And as far as rebuilding IBM relays between Dover and US equipment I wish I had a buck for each one I have rebuilt. Another trick I learned is the plate on top of the relay can be loosened and adjusted to add x-tra tension to the NC contacts. And will make all kinds of problems go away.

#4889 - 10/16/12 12:31 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: danzeitz]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
galaxy Offline
newbie
galaxy  Offline
newbie

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 35
Excellent pointers on how to keep the original style IBMs working. Its amazing how reliable and long lasting the originals have been, (made in the USA)? But going back to my post, I've personally never had to replace a yellow jacket replacement (after ten years on some jobs) or whatever they call the replacements now. Yes, you can't meter the pins, but they do have have the handy coil energized L.E.D. Great thread.

#4903 - 10/17/12 02:30 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: galaxy]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 94
billvator Offline
journeyman
billvator  Offline
journeyman

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 94
just a question do both elevators do this and do they do this at the same time? are they both at the landing and both take off at the same time then level in? or do the both do it independently?

#4910 - 10/17/12 10:41 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: billvator]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Johnny Offline
Journeyman
Johnny  Offline
Journeyman

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Portland. Oregon
LSP pulls in with MOB in the 2f circuit. When lsp is in, leveling is disconnected. When MOB drops, or 2F speed switch drops, LSP drops out and leveling is enabled. Either LSP relay or MOB contact is probably your problem. Do you have a print for the job?

#4980 - 10/24/12 11:55 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: Broke_Sheave]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 451
sbrmilitia Offline
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sbrmilitia  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 451
Originally Posted By: Broke_Sheave
SBRMILTIA...I get up every morning and say a little prayer for you guys. LOL..

Becoming a disappearing breed. One of my best friends, who was a composite ace, just recently passed away. Guys that know that equipment are getting fewer and fewer every day..

Cheers!!!


I'm only 27 but I learned on composites and b base. Out of the young guns out here I'm one of the very few with this knowledge. I just got added another highrise on my route with MiProm 21 and I'm getting humbled real quick. I rather work on a rotary Dover then junk. Which I also have a few on my route.

Last edited by sbrmilitia; 10/24/12 11:57 PM.
#5165 - 11/18/12 04:19 PM Re: Dover composite [Re: sbrmilitia]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
relayman Offline
stranger
relayman  Offline
stranger

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
I think on some jobs the original style IBMs relays work much better. If you call your supplier and they say they are no longer make. You might try looking on the internet. I found a place that makes them to the original IBM specs every day.

#5844 - 02/13/13 01:39 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: relayman]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13
TKE Offline
stranger
TKE  Offline
stranger

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 13
Lsp screens your optical leveling also make sure your not rolling the top pickup assembly roller and blipping the lock. As for the IBM's take your flashlight and look across the top of the relays at the wire contact potion sticking out of the top...see how many you have that have turned and fallen down inside of the relay thus making a n.o contact and n.c contact!! Now after you have checked all of them start looking across the bottom of the relays at the coil leads you will be surprised how many you find backed out....SE, U,D,UA,DA..

#5845 - 02/13/13 06:18 AM Re: Dover composite [Re: sbrmilitia]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 563
uppo72 Offline
addict
uppo72  Offline
addict

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 563
Originally Posted By: sbrmilitia
Originally Posted By: Broke_Sheave
SBRMILTIA...I get up every morning and say a little prayer for you guys. LOL..

Becoming a disappearing breed. One of my best friends, who was a composite ace, just recently passed away. Guys that know that equipment are getting fewer and fewer every day..

Cheers!!!


I'm only 27 but I learned on composites and b base. Out of the young guns out here I'm one of the very few with this knowledge. I just got added another highrise on my route with MiProm 21 and I'm getting humbled real quick. I rather work on a rotary Dover then junk. Which I also have a few on my route.


Hey SB , can you describe what a and b base otis gear is? The high rise otis gear we have here is generally 260vip gearless. Is this the same?

Last edited by uppo72; 02/13/13 06:19 AM.
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