Very nice. I'd buy one.

you really sure this would "fly".....be cheaper just to swap the relays around or replace them with one that is know to be good....Im not trying to put the system or you down but seems a BIG expense for little gain and anything to help out is good.....swapping relays has been the industry norm for years and has seemed to work ok....and this seems rather expensive....and how many "BAD" relays would it take to recoup the cost of actually buying it......and another thing most controllers nowadays dont have "plug in" relays so why bother. Unless I have completely the wrong idea of how it works...

While not having used the model in the picture, I have used several home made and commercial models through the years. Where I've seen them come in handy is on intermittant problems on controllers with LOT's of relays. (Dover Composite, Old Montgomery, etc. )

Can be a real time saver.

There are however several commercial units available. Here's one from ECI.

http://www.eciamerica.com/Elevator-Diagonistic-tools.php

Hey Broke Sheave and Kiwinghstalker,

Thanks for the heads up about the ECI unit can't seem to find a price. Right now I'm just testing the water. With a little volume might be able to get the price down to around $500 depending on the mood of my wife who is very good at detail and with a little love works for almost nothing.

Work Safe you guys............

Sorry I missed you in my recent visit to Carmel by the Sea.
Maybe in 6 months.

My production version of the Kinetic Energy Calculator uses a pistol case like your model. Mine is black.

I found that I had spent too many resources making a product that people felt was overpriced, and really did not want to use.

ASME has specific requirements for kinetic energy. Even group 2 elevators in California. A wealthy investor offered to make it available to every State Inspector in California on a price-matching basis.

In spite of this requirement as well as the requirement for skirt index testing and comb impact testing, few people actually do it.

The carbon dust in the machine rooms I see is the reason for so many generators burning up. Yet vacuums are not used to keep it at bay. Basically people underestimated the amount of work required to keep these devices running.

Your box is sure a nice work of industrial art and I applaud the effort it took to get it this far.

Rest assured that your first loss is your least loss.

Respectfully,

Robert L Krieger Jr.

Hi Robert,

Please make sure next time your are in my neck of the woods to let me know.

Agree with you 100% re your device(s) Just like Pats door lock monitor. When something happens the authorities run amock and require changes and additional testing. Then nothing.

Both of your devices would and could prevent many serious accidents and not to mention the cost of litigation.

Regards,

Jim

Jim,
You may want to look hear as well

http://cyberstore.seesinc.com/ecommerce/CatalogSearch.aspx?Searchstr=MIS-301UT&SCID=-1

Best of luck!

Is a "KH" relay like a Schindler "H" relay? You know, the ones they put on the mid-80s' GEM, GMG, etc? Tiny little wafer-thin pins, get bent easily.

Those relays are like $50 a piece. I'd hate to have to put in 10 new ones for maintenance and troubleshooting, if I could test 'em first. Could actually save money.

Yep Vic...And then you've got to be super careful when you put them back in the controller because bending a pin is real easy.

They called them "Form C" relays down in my neck of the woods.

Hey Group, Might add those to the new tester I'm building. Anyone have any info re: the crappy relays on TAC 20s and others. Type?

I do know it's kinda named after that green guy with the funny ears in the movies.

Jim

Relay testers are awesome but I have found guys who troubleshooting skills suck, they just test every relay in the unit(US Hydros, Fuji) and hope it fixes it. They never pinpoint the problem, find the circuit that is causing the problems and test the relays in that circuit. If that dont fix it, well call the adjuster. Then when people really do need a adjuster they are busy dealing with these idiots.

“Swappers, Testers and Aces”

For The Swappers “Hey we've all done it with exception of the “Ace Trouble Shooters” which I’ll cover later.

Had a boss (Owner as well) that took calls. We had a lot of Montgomery junk that had a zillion of those 4 pole ice cube relays. Come 11 PM, 20 butts on the floor, lobby full of pissed off Hotel Guests and a taste in my mouth that resembled that of a Vultures Crotch. Still in the machine room staring at a broken elevator with 2 used relays in the parts cabinet, condition unknown. Boy, this guy Knew how to make a profit.

Start swapping and for some reason things went from bad to worse. “Wonder Why?” In order to keep his cost down, The Bosses approach was to locate the problem relay with a bad contact or broken shunt and insert it in another socket that didn't use that pole. He’d been doing it for years. Hey! I just got in town.

Another swapping mine field would be “Armor” you know the ones with all those 3 pole relays that fit an odd ball socket only made by GE and over time an oil mist has accumulates inside the case so you can’t even see what’s inside much less determine the voltage. Start swapping, power on, and bingo the controller looks like the bridge of “The Star-ship Enterprise” while under attack by the Klingon battle fleet. “Wonder why?” there are three different voltages on those things starting at 24 Volts and ending up at 240 Volts and maybe even some in between only used in a distant Galaxy far,far away. That OHM never got to.

Last but not least are the relays with the tiny wire pins, we won’t even go there.

Now let’s talk about “The Ace Trouble Shooters” approach to relay problems. You know the ones (unless your one yourself) Yeah, the guys that always have a clean shirt only carry a meter, little tiny screwdriver and a laptop and that have no respect whatsoever for the guys with less than “Top Notch” trouble shooting skills and must resort to using a relay tester. You know these guys too, the guys that just want to fix the elevator, give the customer and his boss a fair shake and get home. Maybe even during the testing process another problem might show up that becomes an "Ass Bitter" down the road. On the other hand the "Aces" are lucky enough to have a Boss that will let him probe, measure, study diagrams(if available)and draw out complicated circuits on the machine room wall for an hour or three on a little full maintenance 2 stop hydro that bills out at ninety bucks a month.

Nothing Personal

Whichever you are, work safe………………

Jim

If you ever work on a SERGE control, be VERY, VERY, careful when you swap relays. They're all ice cubes and look the same, except that a 12VDC relay might be next to a 110 AC relay and all manners of voltages in between.

The worse control I ever worked on was a Westinghouse RSBL, 8 car group with a SERGE dispatch overlay. The 1st time I saw it, I started laughing so hard I couldn't stop. The 2nd time I saw it, all 8 cars were down and I was ready to quit...LOL..

Now let’s talk about “The Ace Trouble Shooters” approach to relay problems. You know the ones (unless your one yourself) Yeah, the guys that always have a clean shirt only carry a meter, little tiny screwdriver and a laptop and that have no respect whatsoever for the guys with less than “Top Notch” trouble shooting skills and must resort to using a relay tester. You know these guys too, the guys that just want to fix the elevator, give the customer and his boss a fair shake and get home. Maybe even during the testing process another problem might show up that becomes an "Ass Bitter" down the road. On the other hand the "Aces" are lucky enough to have a Boss that will let him probe, measure, study diagrams(if available)and draw out complicated circuits on the machine room wall for an hour or three on a little full maintenance 2 stop hydro that bills out at ninety bucks a month.

Nothing Personal

Whichever you are, work safe………………

Jim
[/quote]


But on an intermittant call, and you've used the tester for speed, you finally have to sit down, and find it.

You got that right Buddy. Kinda like the Infantryman. After all the shock and awe. He's the one.

Jim

I havent seen a two stop hydro in over 3 years. Those guys get a van, gas card, and always on the run. Sounds like the good life.

You forgot to mention the 200 plus units..............

I have 76 units in 3 high rises. I have the same amount of landings as a route. And 22 escalators. Gas card, van, and 200 units still sounds like the good life.

Nice tester. The "Miester" (since retired) did it for U.S. quite a number of years ago. I.B.M. type relays and those round base timers were the targets, and the tester worked well for these older U.S. controllers with intermittent stepping/dispatch problems. Later on he configured his tester to accommodate a variety of relay's with a voltage selector feature and L.E.D.'s to reference contacts open or closed. Ahhh yes...I remember all too well the headaches of the 12 pole selector circuit with that latch/unlatch relay business with a mere 11 floors...on OT! Without a tester! And no extra pins!!...and every stinking relay in the cabinet is junk!..and no good replacement relays on hand! In an old folks home with an FMC contract! AARRRGGH! But...it's just a memory now...fading away....................................with time.