both cars are running, maybe i did not explain myself correctly. There were 2 grounds that caused this problem, 1 ground in the direction circuit, that being the LU contact that was touching the frame of the relay thus grounding it, and the other being in the 438 circuit, which i grounded by moving the relay around while changing the coil. if you look at the 438 circuit, there is a 1000 ohm resistor that comes right off of the 311 line, and then into the 438 coil circuit, i inadvertently grounded the right side of that resistor by moving the relay around. The grounded LU contact had been like that for who knows how long, and when i introduced the ground in the 438 circuit, the problem arose. I did take some measurements with the meter while i was tracing out why the direction relays were picking, and from 00 to the the right side of that 1000 ohm resistor that was grounded i was getting 48 vdc, the same voltage that was from 00 to the left side of the direction relays 2,2A,6 etc. i had 48 vdc across direction relays, that is how i isolated the problem back to the LU contact, once i broke the feed to the grounded LU contact, the voltage across direction relays dropped to 0. The car that was running, and ran with the doors open, had a ground in the direction circuit, and when i introduced a ground in 438 circuit of the car that was shut down and i was working on, that is when the car ran with doors open,
both cars are running now, there are no grounds in either of the cars power supplies now, However, like i explained earlier, i can simulate the exact scenario on the opposite car. We have been given some advice to use the lightbulbs to check for grounds on all our westinghouse cars, as half pick has suggested. I think it has something to do with the drop across the 1000 ohm resistor in the 438 circuit, since the car i was working on was shut off, the car that was running, and ran with doors open, was supplying the feed to the 311- 312 circuit, grounding out the right side of that 1000 ohm resistor and grounding out the LU contact cause a feed between the 2 points. I am in portland for a week, but when i get back i will go to another job and see if i can duplicate the problem. I believe i can duplicate it elsewhere, I will keep you posted. JKH in this duplex controller, 79 and 00 are the same as 311 and 312. with car number 1 off, car number 2's 79 and 00 will feed the common feed 311 and 312. Halfback, i did not try to duplicate the problem with both cars power on, maybe i will check into that as well when i get back
