Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions miprom21fault 23

I have had a series of problems with this one elevator and need some help.

Took a call for an elevator shut down, found that the door operator arm and linkage had fallen off due to a stripped bolt. Redrill and tapped for a new hole right next to original hole. Door operation worked fine.

two - three weeks later

Several calls for shut downs, others responded and calls were said to have door lock problems on random floors.

The next time I answered a call their I rechecked the door operator and DOL and DCL limits and all checked out good.

Check and serviced all door locks at floors 5,4,3,2.
Out of time for the 1st floor.

I did find some possible door lock issues and corrected on the floor I did service.

The State Inspector wrote up the elevator for new cables
which it needed. I also needed to replace the thrust bearing due to 1/4" of slamming back and forth intermittently.

One or two weeks go by and I hear that there have been a few times that this elevator has shutdown.

Several mechanics say the same thing a door lock not making. Debris in track and other various quick fixes.

A week or so goes by and another call for this same elevator.

I responded, checked the bottom floor and verified if the signal was being received at the controller.

The voltage and LED's for DG and CG indicated that the bottom floor was causing problems.

Investigated 1st floor in detail and found contact was sagging just low enough to not make all the time, also found that there was allot of play behind the contact flat copper tab. I was able to shim it forward to always make.
will be replacing a whole new assy.

About a month goes by and I replaced cables and thrust bearing. The elevator ran up and down fine to every floor before the cables and thrust bearing repair.

Now the gear box had a noise coming from inside. The elevator felt like it was jerky and slipping.

Rechecked the thrust bearing torque specs., as well as the end cap shim.

This helped just enough to not feel it as much, but something was still not right.

Let it run for a few days and rechecked, The elevator felt and sounded slightly better but not 100% right.

A week later and I hear that the elevator is still shutting down on random floors.

I checked into it thinking door locks or debris ect...

That was not the problem, the symptoms were the same. Shutdown on various landings, doors closed, power secured.

Troubleshot and found that the encoder coupler had broken in half.

Replaced coupler and that eliminated the gear box noise and the feeling that the elevator was slipping and once again elevator appears to operate fine.

A few days +/_ or within the following week. Still shutting down with doors closed, power secured.

Checked out the operation and appeared to run fine.

At that time I was set to replace the cables to the adjacent car. While changing cables on that elevator, the problem car ran fine the whole time we were there and for at least a week.

Received another call that the elevator was shut down, never the same floor, doors closed, power secured.

Watched the elevator closer and noticed that occasionally the elevator would stop just after taking off and relevel back down and wait for a demand or stop before arriving at a floor and releveling up and wait for a demand.

Eventually the elevator would time out of service with doors closed at random floors.

Found that LRU and LRD leveling relays are not energizing which led me to the pilot board behind the relay board, to a small relay #9711. replaced

This stopped the leveling and releveling And appeared to not time out of service, at least for that day.

A day or two and again shutdown with doors closed and power secured.

Talked to someone about this problem and they offered the use of there service tool to check the fault log which gives me a 23 and that points to a drive fault.

I was able to inhibit the doors and run the car using the automatic calls function from the machine room.

I observed that for a brief moment the drive LED's, on the relay pilot board, F8 and HF light up.

This resets and then the elevator takes off.

This occurs randomly at any floor and any direction. But only at the start of the sequence.

I think as soon as it receives a command to go to the next floor. Faulting out and resetting automatically.

Eventually timing out when on full automatic and in service with door functions.

Any ideas in solving this last problem would be great.

Is HF LED staying on?
Is the SF LED on?
Is DRDY LED on?

First some questions.
1- Is this a AC or DC Drive?
2- Is it Analog or Digital?
3- What does power secured mean?
Answering those will help. As for F-8 that is a contactor fault in a Digital DC, in a digital AC it is an AC Line over voltage.
You really can't get into Drive problems without a proper service tool. Your Company can get one at World Electronics.

Please bare with me, my knowledge and experience with miproms are limited.

John Jay brings up a valid point. Not knowing which drive is being utilized leaves us incomplete.

Now this is where I'm unsure of myself. It's been sometime since I've worked on this type of equipment. But I thought that if both SF & HF LEDs stayed on it indicated a problem with the drive.
I am woundering, you said the encoder coupling broke? Did you replace the encoder? Is it possible that the encoder is causing a fluctuation in the velocity demand that in turn creates an HF emergency stop?
Also could it be the drive I/O board or relay pilot board?

if it is a digital dc drive, f8 is contactor failure, vp19
contactor failure. contactor is dropping out when commanded to pick up
one thing to keep in mind is the DSD switch on the door operator
since this all seems to start with door operator adjustment, i would check the DSD micro switch on the door operator, this switch usually closes about 1-2" before doors are fully closed, if this switch does not make up, the M contactor will not pick up. have a look at this first

if it is a digital dc drive, f8 is contactor failure, vp19
contactor failure. contactor is dropping out when commanded to pick up
one thing to keep in mind is the DSD switch on the door operator
since this all seems to start with door operator adjustment, i would check the DSD micro switch on the door operator, this switch usually closes about 1-2" before doors are fully closed, if this switch does not make up, the M contactor will not pick up. have a look at this first also as john jay says, tool is necessary, look under drive fault section to get a better idea of drive faults that may be happening if you are getting hard or soft faults

JW
Was the original trouble door operator? Is this one of your services? Any trouble with this unit prior to reworking the linkage by drilling and tapping?
Interlock trouble seems to be the theme. Jerking and slipping are customer reports that typically CAN be door related. MAC door contacts can be a pain, and replacements for even somewhat worn hooks or contact leafs is by far the best option.
Did the brake get worked over at all with the machine repairs? Check the pick of the brake that it's not sluggish, a warm to hot drum in a relatively short period of time spells trouble. The Brake Picked micro should just be off the core once the brake has fully picked, and that with a good quick snap.
Have you looked at "Motion Excuses" once the car fails? Are there more than just the #23 error logged?
As was stated depending on drive make, DSD, or BC circuit ( BCX) picks up right at drive engagement too. This fail to run, but start, is a clue. Broken coil wires on M, bad auxillary contacts on M are all suspect. Take one issue at a time, you'll get it resolved.
Hope we've been able to help.

Does it have the blue micro-switch on the long arm? If so when you find it in that condition see if your cgdo input on the miprom 1 is high. If the micro switch is made the input will be high, this version acts as the DSD switch. Could be on the ragged edge. Acts just like the gate switch is not making. Check contacts on SBA relay and 1M auxillarys.

Wow, thanks for all the feed back!
Now let's see if I can clarify a few questions

HF and F8 turn on as soon as DRDY goes off. The SF LED is not on and has never turned on while I've been there.

The AC Digital Drive resets the fault, may be once then takes off or may reset 2-3 times before taking off.

The fault also resets when the power has been secured meaning the main line has been turned off then on again. The building engineers or maintenance personnel always turn the elevator off when it is shut down.

I did not replace the encoder, just the coupler that was broken.
I set up the elevator to run on automatic up and down constantly with "inhibit doors" on so not to interfere with the group calls
The car will run like this for 4-5 trips, or more up and down before faulting out and resetting itself. It may reset the first try or the 3rd, 4th, maybe 5th try. and run normally for a while.

If the encoder was bad wouldn't that occur at every run.

So, I was thinking maybe the motor control board #91374 in the drive but I will check the door operator switch DSD and BC circuits sounds quicker.

I did change the 1M auxillary contact ONLY but it didn't solve the problem.

The brake is solid and it was serviced, cleaned and lubed. Switches engage when brake is picked but I will also check SBA relay.

Oh! I did check the motion excuses and the drive faults which gave me the #23 fault and also a #60 drive fault with a bunch of 176 , 176 , 176.

You have all been very helpful and I will have to take it one step at a time. THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR TIME!

One thing to check is that the P2 timer is a second or so longer than the SB timer on the Brake panel. if it isn't it will cause a 60 error.

Okay! here an update to the elevator problem I am having.

good news the 23 motion error and the drive error 60 is gone.

However, the elevator will now run up and down, opens and closes the doors just fine.
The weird thing is that the controller now has all the right LED's lit and indicates all is good to go from the machine room.

after a run the car , at any floor will latch a call and displays the direction arrow and the floor it's on and nothing happens it is stalled.

The fault log has one fault 171*15*16*17. No Events, or Drive Faults. 15,16, and 17 all point to safety string Items - SH,STP, and SC.

However, when measuring the voltages it all reads good 120vac. and LED's that are supposed to be on are on. Seems to be waiting for a demand in the controller but in the car it has a demand and is ready run.

check the motion excuses screen. it will tell you why it isn't moving.

Hi john jay,
I'm not that familiar with this service tool but I think that motion errors is were I found the last fault, which was the 171*15*16*17 and pointed to safety circuit yesterday. Today stop by to check and it was shut down again parked at the bottom and not answering hall calls. Checked the fault log and the 23 and 60 faults are back. One of the other cars in the three car group was having door problems and had to get it back in service this was a loos bolt that was making lots of noise. While I was working on the second car I just reset the original car and it appeared to run fine till I was leaving the build. So long story short I'm back to the original problem. A 23 fault for the Motion faults and a 60fault is for Drive
drive faults

Just from reading these posts, you may want to call for some back up help. A 60 error occurs when the drive tells the contactor to close but does not detect the AUX contact. Motion errors and motion excuses are 2 different screens that are self explanatory.