Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Schindler 400A GX KUET, PHUET and T4 Faults

Hey Guys,

Me and our mechanics have been fighting with this intermittent problem on a Schindler 400A unit that we rarely see up here on the west coast of Canada, and can't quiet get her sorted. There is a list of faults that come in as followed:


Error Drive
148 Safety T4
18:14:23

Short Drive
99 RSK Fault
18:18:07

Error Drive
148 Safety T4
19:17:33

Perm Drive
67 KUET Fault
19:17:46

This same string is happening anywhere from once a week to once a day, and although we have the prints and controller manuals that are "close" to this unit, we don't have the exact GX manual which would be helpful, but we have asked for it before on VatorTrader and from Adams, and nobody seems to have any information on these damn things. The hoistway learn procedure never seems to take either, there is reference to a IMOF Montage switch on the ASILOG board which doesn't appear to be there, but again, this might be due to the lack of job specific manuals. We tried cleaning the Banner optosensors on the leveling system but didn't make a difference. tried swapping the relays, thinking it was a monitoring problem, double-checked the canbus wiring and all connections, and its all good. we are STUMPED. It is a duplex unit so the site hasn't kicked us to the curb yet, but we are getting to the end of our rope!

If anyone has the manuals for the Miconic GX, circa 2011, that would be extremely helpful. that or just some help if you are familiar with these beasts.

link expire in few days

400A is a TXrx5 with few modifications (400a is the first North America Schindler MRL)


https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tol7...rlkey=5uzspz8wvvyrcuk2nopoblupd&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6r2v...rlkey=76jakv7htu8pp90st38085br0&dl=0

That second manual came in handy, I appreciate it - we are unfortunately still having the same issue. I'm leaning more towards a bad ASIBNA board, as it looks like it was repaired by a cowboy once before, specifically the door lock circuit. I was hoping CADI would shed more light but nope.

I'm going to switch the ASIBNA boards between the two cars and see if she follows. if so I guess we need a new $7000 board.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Swapping boards/parts between two cars is one of the best methods of hunting down intermittent issues. Great idea

I have a bunch of these junkers. The error drive 148 safety t4 regardless of what the description is, comes from an interlock not making up or breaking. The faults that follow it are secondary and most times not accurate to the initial cause. No guarantees but I would check and or clean up all interlock contacts. Good luck.

So today we swapped ASIBNA boards between both cars, and the problem remained on CAR 2, so definitely not the board. even though the door lock circuit measure under 3 Ohms for 18 story building, and the fault is happening at multiple landings once or twice a day.

the KUET fault "extra info" hex was 0x00003601, which decoded gave me this:

E column (3) convered to binary is 0011:
> PHS = IN_FIN, PHNR_D = IN_FIN


F column (6) converted to binary is 0110:
> KUET FALSE, KUET1 TRUE, ENABLE UET TRUE.


GH column (01) converted to binary is 0000 0001:
> STATUS OF KUET AND KUET1 ARE DIFFERENT.


The only thing jumping out at me is why if this is a doorlock fault, would KUET and KUET1 be in different states... They are paralleled. that is also why I wanted to swap the boards incase the soldered on "Dold" relay was failing, hoping the issue would follow.

I will clean the heck out of every door lock, but I'm not convinced yet!!!

Go through that circuits beaks, beak drop, contacts, wire connections, and wire terminations like a surgeon. I had a hairline fractured MAC door lock contact get me years ago and a loose silver contact pad on a MAC door lock contact once.

Door lock contacts kits are cheap once you start dealing with a persistent callbacks. I'd replace them all on every floor to be sure. Or at least clean them all with emery cloth followed by contact cleaner.

Had an Ibox once that had a bad spot in the fire wire for the bottom floor lock that the car would randomly stop around 3 or 4 when that wire lost continuity, 8 stop car. Had to pull new fire wire from machine room to basement. Just brainstorming.

I agree with Montana, check everything. Pull duct covers off, see if they had lock wires connected (wire nuts/steakons) in the duct that could be checked. You can't rule out anything If you didn't install it.

I also would ride that car on inspection and as you go violently shake each door as you go by it, looking for one that stops the car.

I have had some bad experiences on some old northerns with ECI locks... Definitely not as reliable as the ubiquitous GAL locks. I did the door shake test already, hoping to get a travel stop on a constant run from top to bottom... Nothing. Shook em damn good.

Only other thing I'm thinking is the pickup penetration is way deeper than I normally like, the rubber of the pickups are almost completely inside the clutch (door op is a Schindler specialty but the mechanics are very ECI-esque.

I figured maybe the clutch isn't fully releasing the pickups every time and causing the HWDL to hang up, yet closing the Gate Sw.

My coworker is going to go through all the locks thoroughly on Monday. Hopefully he finds something obvious, i think a pack of contact kits is necessary at this point. Will follow up on Monday evening with our findings!!

SUCCESS.

After all of this, it ended up being a vane for the leveling system that was about a half inch more recessed in penetrating the Banner unit, and was breaking one of the bridging switches (KUET and KUET1)

Adjusted the vane plate out a bit and haven't had an issue since. for anyone fighting with this problem in the future -- pay attention to the hex codes! the T4 error gave us the car height in mm, which told us which floor, and the KUET fault pointed us to the bridging contacts in the PHUET banner unit.

Thank you for the update.