Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Haughton leveling problem

Hello to all -The word Haughton is enough said. my problem is simple i'm sure but I am not familiar with any Haughton. I am fairly new at running a route and have a leveling issue with this equipment-my info is limited I know this equipment is pre gold flight but do not know what type controller i appologize there no data tags anywhere -im working on getting the proper prints since the ones I have are so roached that they are useless -is anyone familiar with the sequence or relays that are involved in this circuit -off the top of my head A A1 A2 seem to be leveling speeds on this type --the problem when car goes into leveling it creeps extremely slow in both directions hence im looking for the relays or contacts that are involved-once again I appologize for the lack of info and probably should not have even attempted to post this without any real info--but just taken a chance to see if any vets out there could shed some light on this 1960ish pos
--generator is fine brushes -shunts etc all in good shape -

Is this the vintage with the selector clutches, chains, etc? What a monstrosity.

I'd compare the generator field voltage, loop volts, and motor field voltage with a good running car. Maybe you will see the gen field drop much lower than the other car when it's in leveling. Then watch the other car come into floor level, and note what relays change states, that put the unit into the proper leveling speed. Maybe you have a bad contact, or a resistor problem, open coil somewhere.

Sorry I don't have anything more tangible to say. I've never worked on that stuff.

i think vics got it right ive never worked on this stuff but it definately sounds like the bottom of your pattern cct(s curve) is losing current.if the lift is levelling in, its more than likely the second to last levelling switch which is not operating properly. have you checked all the main relays contacts and flexes that they havent got a break in them. it also sounds like it is common to both directions.

im in the middle of going over all the relays -replacing and cleaning contacts --I see no breaks or anything out of ordinary but the contacts on every relay --to put it lightly dirty would do these justice -more like machinest files dream lol -MFN relay does have a major arc though when its dropping. -ive spent 8 hours on this thing cleaning and searching and on top of being pushed out the door because of calls piling up etc from the big boss man -thats what happens when your running a major company with a skeleton crew.proper maintaining and troubleshooting takes time not everytthing is a easy fix but that is not understood by the twits in the office--thanks for the effort and ideas - -ps vic there are 2 controllers for this single car 1 controller has your bigger relays such as H relay and I think L relay etc and the the other controller has more of a es type westinghouse or slide type relays and a bunch of them is a understatement -the selector appears to be a half moon looking stepper switch in the middle of the controller

Is this a vane leveling system? If so, there were white magnetic reed switches that controlled the final steps of level speeds. If the center switches are welded, then you will get final speed too soon. This could cause you to level in slowly and hunt for the floor. Some of these were normally open and some were normally closed.

johnny, you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable guys on the forum.
Good advice, if this controller does indeed have this type of leveling/stepping setup, then you would need to verify each switch is operating correctly. Even if it does not have this type switch, the concept is the same. the problem is that this is a complicated relay logic system, and you need to know the correct sequence of operations to be able to troubleshoot this controller. without that knowledge, then you will be guessing. if you are guessing, then at least go through all the car top switches, leveling, etc. to see if they are working correctly. if they all check out, the make sure the relays, or circuit they drive are working correctly. you could have a perfectly good L3 leveling switch, yet the L3 relay has an open coil. or you could have a good L3 coil, but the L3 switch is no good . this is just an example, good luck, these were tough controllers in the old days, they are even tougher now for the newer mechanic.

iuec4me,
Were you able to identify the leveling switches, that weaken the generator field when in leveling?

I think that you are getting too much declaration too soon in the Pattern. This causes the car to hunt (come in too slowly) at the floor. If a leveling switch is open or shorted, then you get a slower step of slowdown too early and the car rapidly decelerates. Also, you could have a slowdown resistor open at the final steps and that would open the gen shunt field circuit until another slowdown jumps it (the break in the resistor) out.

this houghton gear sounds alot like our johns and waygood stuff with motor control. we have fs1,fs2 etc to control the stepping out of the pattern cct which in turn are controlled via inductors going thru vanes in the shaft. i would be looking at the other controller and do a basic system watch to see the slowdown of common relays that step up and down. it should be easy to notice 3 or 4 relays that go in/out in sequence and they should be your speed relays. it also could be like others have said that a section of your resistor bank might be open cct. if your reed switches are shorted you might see these speed switches jump 2 relays at a time, while if not it could be your resistors. let us know how you go mate.

When you say A1, A2, H & L this sounds like an old series field job with a stepping switch selector. This could an early West Coast Haughton VV. Where is this job? Most likely I have a diagram that will work.

Jim

day 2 no luck -I have not checked for a welded contact in reader -yes it has the white magnetic reed switches --guys I appreciate the compiled info as 2moro I will use bits and pieces of all of your ideas -yes its been a guessing game so far -prints are on the way though so hopefully I will prevail -

I have some Haughton stuff on my route but I'm not all that familiar with it nor am I sure which controller you are working on. Have you looked at KLS relay? I do know the car will creep when KLS (K-Limit Slowdown) drops.

KLS relay does not exist on the controller Ive been working on -I will double check 2moro but I have concentrated on the higher voltage relays in 1 of the controllers the other contoller may have it though --thanks for the idea keep em coming everyone -I truly appreciate each and every idea ----work safe

I'd hang a scope on the gen field, look for a disproportionate anomaly or gap in the S-curve. Try to identify the slowdown switch/relay sequence, find the relay or resistor section that corresponds with the gap in the field strength.

ok problem fixed A2 timer relay /telephone relay 2 tiny contacts burned through causing speed relay sequence off also added a turn in the series field car was runnin 298 fpm and 1 turn added and a f4 resistor adjustment -car is now running 330 fpm --the tag says 350 fpm but I am satisfied 4 now ---this is a 1964 adh or adr haughton --ugh amazing what prints can tell ya --thanks everyone for all the ideas --until next time --:]

Big congrats!

We all wanted to come over there and fix it for ya!
Such a well-steeped talent pool here!

even some of us thats never seen this type before! its funny tho as most of the time nearly all lifts of type are very similar in design.

indeed a good bunch of guys who make this trade the elite of all trades -proud to be a elevator man which I know you all are to thanks again everyone i'm off to the next brain buster that will make me see red again but keep in mind its only a elevator lol cya

a very astute mechanic told me once you have to have a healthy care factor of zip. do the best you can but when you walk out the door let it go till next time. in this way you dont take your work home and do your head in.