Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Hydro Problems

Here is the problem we've been having:

When button to a floor is pressed, the elevator will move slightly at first. Then, wait 20 secs to 2 minutes and then move.

I had 2 elevator companies take a look at it. One said the leveler needs to be replaced. The other said that the relay contactor needs to be replaced.

What do you guys think is wrong with it?

I know your getting different answers from them, but go with the proffesionals. To many factors to consider here without knowing more about the equipment.

Boa,

The problem is that there are 2 different professionals here with differing opinions. I was hoping by coming here, I can figure out who's right.

But, I guess you're saying it's impossible to say without directly inspecting the equipment?

Does it only happen in the up direction? At only one floor? do the doors open during the pause in operation? Is the problem consistent with every call? Is the Hydraulic Oil fairly warm? These are a few questions you can look into without working on the unit that may help narrow the problem down. Any competent Elevator Mechanic would look at these before getting out the tools.

WorkingSuper,

Did these companies actually trouble-shoot the trouble to its source? Or, did they come in take a quick look at it for free and say "I think this is what is the trouble"? By your brief description I can come with several alternatives of my own.

There is no simple answer to your question. If you paid someone to find the trouble they should be able to prove and explain the trouble to you. If you didn't pay anyone then there is no reason for them to find and tell you what is exactly wrong and what needs to done to correct it.

And no one is saying you can't find help here. I am saying that you are giving too little and/or vague information. If you were in the industry your questions would be worded differently. And you would have included the manufacturer and model of your equipment. Is it doing this at every landing? In each direction? Where are you located?

I am asking these questions so I may try and find a responsible and safe way to assist you.

Sorry I think I'm answering this on your other post, forget where I'm at sometimes.

You're hunch seems to be dead on. It seems to happen mostly when it's going up. It happens starting from all floors I think. And, it occurs every single time.

What happens exactly is someone presses a button. The car jerks a little and then moves to the desired floor. Then, there is a wait for a few minutes. And, then the door opens.

Today, the car's safety got triggered and they were working on it all day to get it off. This is an office building so it's been a nightmare with the tenants screaming bloody murder.

Trust me. We don't cut any corners and make sure that the elevator professional does all the work. We sign off on all work that they suggest. We definitely want this to be done the right way.

And, thanks so much for everyone's help. Hugely appreciated.

Sorry for the 2 separate threads. I didn't realize it would make it confusing.

I closed the other one and will answer questions on this one.

Here is the brief summary of the history.

Starting from 1.5 years ago, the safety would constantly trigger. Perhaps, several times a month. It would cause the elevator to be shut down for about a day, sometimes longer depending where the elevator's position was. But, every single time, it looks like there would be too much slack in the cable.

The techs couldn't figure out the cause. We've put in a heater in the oil, polished the rails, replaced the packing, etc. Along the way, we also replaced several electrical components in the controller. This improved the elevator immensely. Instead of breaking down several times a month, it now breaks down perhaps every month or 2. A big improvement but still not sufficient since this is an office building.

Starting from 2 weeks ago, the elevator started to jerking around a bit. The oil flow was adjusted and the heat on the heating element was reduced slightly. This helped with the jerking but there still was a long pause. The same pause that I explained earlier.

Yesterday morning, the elevator's safety was triggered and the techs worked all day to put the elevator back on. They are working on it today.

The elevator company still have no idea why the elevator is acting the way it does. I guess that's the most important because once the elevator is back and running, it's only going to break down again if we can't figure out the source of the problem.

Is this a roped hydraulic elevator?

Is this a roped hydraulic elevator? Or do you have an over speed collar on the jack head?

Dover elevator have some issues with the oil vicosity in their valves, with oil cold , need more information.

Safties applied? or Gov switch tripped? or both? Safties applied, dog hanging up? Jacks out of synch, one packing tighter than the other racking the car. Gov switch is overspeed. You may have more than 1 issue. Jerking could be the above, then shutdown. Hesitating leaving the floor could be this if the hung up dog drops, but highly unlikely.

Car going off on up,,sounds like either valve block is needing looked at, or dodgy contactor,,,can't be governor as only work on down,,and can't be rupture valve either as same,,then again,,,if guys have been working on it, and it goes off again, I would be asking serious questions as to why the can't find out what's going on,,and keep pushing them,,indeed, tell them to get their technician in,,as long as they pay for it!

Yeah I agree. The pause when levelling in sounds like its levelling in really slow. You could prove this by either do what we have for centuries and that is just staring at the job for ages or fix a temp camera on record on the car to record movement( have done this on a really intermittent fault!!). It sounds like the levelling valve but then again if the down is ok when levelling that seems maybe not( if it is common to both directions). Is the up stop transducer functioning? Is the lift actually level and the doors aren't just opening?

It also sounds like 2 faults really. When you say safties I take it you mean safety gear? It seems to me it shouldn't take all day to get these out unless they are really slamming in or are right at the top of the shaft. Its usually quite easy to bump it up to unlock them. What about burs in the rails or loose rails as well?

Finally I would suggest you have a comprehensive lift contract as in this way they are obliged to attend for free to all callouts and it wont cost you a cent.

Hey, guys. Thanks for all the help. Had a long day and just got in.

john jay - yep...it's a roped hydraulic. Not sure if I have an overspeed collar.

it sometimes takes all day to get it off the safety because it happens on the top floor. This time, it got stuck on the top floor and they stated that something snapped.

Additionally, they said the temp sensor in the oil tank broke and they replaced it. They said this is common every 5 years.

But, they still don't know why the safety keeps going off.

They said they will be replacing the old contactor. They say that the only thing they can do is keep fixing it and keep going by baby steps.

From what you guys are saying, it really could be a number of things and best way is to get the professional to figure it out. The problem is they can't seem to do it. I'm really loyal and so I've been sticking with the present company for a while but I really need to get this elevator running...

Do you guys suggest a certain way to resolve this? For example, would hiring an elevator engineer to consult with present elevator company help? Or is there a certain type of company I should be using? Like union as opposed to non-union? Or should the techs have certain type of accreditations?

Thanks in advance for your help, guys. You guys have been great...

Who is the manufacture and where are you located?

What brand is this unit? It sounds like you may need to get the manufacturer involved, especially if they have field technicians.

Ah yes it can be a drama if the safety gear is in on the top floor especially if the headroom is small. They have to be able to lift the car to disengage the gear and may not have room to do it in or to work.

Just another couple of points. I have worked on lots of roped hydraulics, but it was a while ago so bear with me. We had lots of problems with bouncing in of safety gear for no reason. By that I mean it didn't actually actuate or overspeed, but the lift or diverter sheave momentarily stopped on the rails. We had to check things like: rail clearances from S/gear, governor rope pit pulley weight too heavy and pulling the actuating arm down, gov rope loose, rope diverter sheave rails dry, rope diverter sheave rails loose and cause cross bar to bind in slipper guides.

All of these things should be checked. What is the manufacturer of the lift?

Uppo's on it, rail alignment-jack alignment-dry rails, the list could go on and on. Roped hydros can be an absolute pain. You could have a tight packing, the jerking motion of the piston traveleing down out of the top landing could cause the safeties to set. Tight packings will be worse the higher the elevator travels, you may not notice it too much in the lower portion of the hoistway, the higher you get the harder the "slip, stop, bump".

The correct oil would also make a difference, if the oil has overheated-maybe only once, it will need to be changed. 155F degrees is the cut off point for hydro oil, if it has ever risen above this magic point in temperature, the oil, valve, packing and and any other peice of rubber in the oil line will need to be replaced. Oil is acidic in nature, polymers are blended into the oil to prevent this acid from eating components in the oil system. This acidic oil will now cause many issues with the proper operation of the valve and packing. Acidic oil will turn most rubber "O" rings and packings into sponges, instead of sealing, the rubber now soaks and swells up creating many problems.

Ok WorkingSuper,
I've been trying to follow your thread while I was away. I'm sure you would agree how great it is so many are participating!

Please provide us with the manufacturer and model of the equipment?

You may need to ask your elevator contractor to help in answering our questions...

Single piston roped hydro? Duel piston roped hydro?

Slack in which cable(s)? Piston? Governor?

Is there an electrical switch on the overspeed governor?

Is there a chance the governor mechanical rope grips are tripping in the up direction? Is there a chance when the car starts to go down the dawgs on the safety plank grab the rails and stop the car?

If you were to open the doors, how close to the top landing floor is the elevator car floor?

Any chance you were riding the elevator when anything has happened? If so, when the car started to move up did it feel abrupt and bounce?

I know I've asked already! But this is really important.

Who is the manufacturer? (Otis, Schindler, Dover, Westinghouse)

What is the manufacturers model? (SOB, 330A, DMC, HYL2BC)

Manufacture and model # of the governor?

And one last thing any pictures? Governor, safety plank, pump unit, controller, piston assembly?