oh yes elm we know about the bifurcated relays, when we took the job over someone had put regular relays in a few of the cars, and a lot of 38 errors, we have them all changed out, so i had the route guy go by and change the pr relay out just for the hell of it, after he was done, he said the car would not leave the bottom floor, he indicated that U relay would not pick, the led was dim, it tried a few times chattered, and then it would log the error and shut down. Had him replace the little UA relay, and all was well, hopefully it finally showed itself, but time will tell. thanks again for the replies everyone
