Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Hi speed elevator Mod

bidding on a mod of a 35 story hi rise building. Car speed is 1250. does anyone have any experience doing a mod with speeds this hi using a company like MCE , GAL, Elevator controls or the like.

well this post has had over 100 views, and no reply. I guess the only ones that have installed cars this fast and this many rises are the big guns. kind of makes me worry about getting the mod. although it is a 4M dollar mod. would want the customer to get something that is going to perform and last.

Are you asking what equipment performs well, tips on the installation process or are you Looking for some assurance that you can handle such a project?

Based on our own interaction, I will say with confidence, I know you are up for it.

So, who manufactured the original equipment?
What if anything are you retaining?
How many units?
Did you send a proposal already?
Did you spec a manufacturer and model in your proposal?

My advice comes from what I have done when we get into a situation we haven't seen before. I call the controll manufactior and ask for references of like jobs. I then call and talk to the construction super. The adjuster and maintenance mechanic. And I have never been turned down by the way. Seems like elevator men love to talk elevators????? Just ask my wife!!! We run about 16 mod construction crews but have never had a job of that speed. But a few minutes and a couple of calls can save you hours no weeks of grief and $$$$$$ of money.

Dan I can say, if you tried that here, particularly the office staff, then you would get a dial tone. Talking to the boys on the tools, yep you could get some info.

I'm wondering why there is even a question? A mod is a mod is a mod. Doesn't matter how many floors or how fast the cars run.

just being inquisitive , speed is definitely a concern, i think I'm more concerned with the positioning system at that hi of a speed. i just don't think a tape reader system can handle such a rise and speed. maybe theoretically, but how practical is it really. that is one concern. guess we really need to contact all the non proprietary companies and ask questions about how they feel about the speed and rise, see if they have anyone install such a system, and any problems that may have arisen,
jkh we have not sent proposal yet, just getting all our ducks in a row, it will be 15 cars, all gearless, of which we would keep all the machines. also new door equipment, probably keep the existing otis hall door equipment. just a new operator etc. they are otis currently otis 401 elevonic cars.
obviously we are going to try and get the mod, was just wanting some feed back.
BRG, have you ever worked on cars of that speed? have you ever witnessed a safety set at 1450 fpm? it can be quite intimidating to someone who has just installed and worked on 350fpm cars. i think speed is a contributing factor to think about, you really don't want the cars to shut down in flight due to some benign fault that most of the new controllers incorporate into there systems now.
I think at that speed, you would want software to check, and double check if not triple check all aspects of the system before issuing a command to drop everything in flight. this would be another concern of mine, also I'm sure there are things to take into account at that speed which we have not thought of yet. not sure what they would be, as i personally have only worked on one other system that had that speed. and only a few times at that.

uppo 77 sounds like you live in an unfriendly part of town!! But when I have narrowed down my controller manufactures and get referral numbers I have called all over the US and always got a positive response. Vatorgator I wouldn't use a tape on our 20 story 700fpm jobs so I can guarantee I wouldn't use one on your job!

Gator, I have been involved in many High speed Mods. You are correct in worrying about the Landing system. Tape systems will not work. I was lucky in that I worked for a Major who used Readers and a Vane at each floor. I assume the Gearless are DCV, and you are retaining the Rails and Pit Structure. before I retired there was a company that bought the rights to the Miprom System from Kone. We used them on a Mod and had good results. I believe the name was C-Tec. However that Mod was ACV. you may try them. Getting a DC Drive may be tough. This job sounds like a Major wrote the Specs.

Sorry uppo your 72 not 77

we have been using the Pixel system from EC for all our mods, up to 500 fpm , and up to 15 floors so far with no problems. they are insisting that there tape system will work, and that the magnatek dsd 412 can handle the job. they do have a tape system that has no contact with the actual tape, however, i still think 35 floors and that speed is going to lead to trouble somewhere down the road. the rails would have to be dead on the entire length, and the car could not sway to much or the reader would come away from the tape and cause a emergency stop . the pixel has been a terrific unit so far, as we have put in 25 or so with no problems. not sure what kind of position encoder motion uses on there IBOX, i was also told that smartrise has a encoder option for the position system that also worked well.
decisions decisions

The DSD 412 will not be the weakest link, you are right the tape will. I have done similar mods using proprietary equipment. I have done slower mods (to 700fpm with iBox, and up to 500fpm with Galaxy.

Go tapeless without a doub, better yet at those speeds use a machine and gov encoder for best results. My choice would be Galaxy. That being said, it a shame to run non-p controls on a high speed job, depending on the company the proprietary controls can be much better. Again this is only my experience having worked with a bunch on equipment.

Dan, no probs! I say that purely as the companies are trying to win contracts and wont help others which may ultimately take the job from them. As to the control, it was interesting that Otis still had tape systems which still ran pretty good, but our company(Otis bought out) went to electronic climbing with course reader, fine reader(reader on the governor) and then vane floor level control in 1978ish. The system was ahead of its time I think.

and a pain in the you know what when it played up!!!

Ha just like every other system that failed!! I must admit, I never really had that much trouble with them especially with the positron upgrade. Pretty good really. I could count on 1 hand problems with this system compared to encoder issues on electronic lifts.

Ibox using LS-quad encorder which is mount on top of Elevator with the roller pressing to the rail and the levelling magnet is mount on the rail.

Ibox should be the ticket. They make a high speed version of their rail mount encoders with bigger rollers and a heavier spring.

I'd also ship all the machine data back to the control vendor... Have run into issues retaining certain gearless machine sets.
I think smartrise has the references and proper encoding at those speeds too. Good Luck.

I would use GAL at that distance and speed. I've never done one that tall and fast, but I would trust them the most to help me through it. Sounds like it would be a fun job. Makes the 450 fpm 20 story geared traction group I'm working on seem boring lol.