Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Direct Logic 305-Koyo Help!

Hi everyone,

I manage an apartment building in LA. One day the elevator froze in place on the bottom floor. Went up to the control panel and noticed the controller was completely dead, or not lit up at all. Our elevator company was able to manipulate the controller to raise the car up a few floors but nothing more. The technician and the owner of the company do not speak English as a first language so I couldn't glean much info other than the controller is bad, and the parts are hard to find. They quoted me $14k to replace everything to get it up and running. The trouble is that by changing any parts out, the grandfather clause will terminate and I will certainly fail the next inspection. The city will require everything to be updated to code which will cost $100k.
My goal is to fix the controller in such a way that it will appear to not have been touched. Is this possible or am I way off base? The technician stated that the elevator is safe otherwise. Any input here would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Peter
[img]http://i.imgur.com/q1UxePQl.jpg?1[/img]

Sadly for you, you don't get what you pay for, but you pay for what you get.

Yes you are way off base!

The city of Los Angeles inspectors assist you in being sure your elevator meets the MINIMUM code requirements required by the law as well as the rules and regulations.

Does the company you have have a contractors license or a certificate as a Competent Conveyence company?

Maybe you should make a call to the IUEC local 18 and see if they are signatory.

The PLC is available from http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Home/Home?gclid=CJOK963K2c4CFYqCfgodc-sEFg

100K for a new updated controller is what happens to people like you who are fooled into doing business with people who are in Los Angeles and do not speak your language. Stop being a victim and do the right thing.

You are sadly misinformed about Los Angeles city code as well as Title 8 and it is foolish of you to believe your fears are founded in fact.

May I respectfully suggest you obtain a copy of California Code of Regulations Title 8
Division 1. Department of Industrial Relations
Chapter 4. Division of Industrial Safety
Subchapter 6. Elevator Safety Orders
Group 1. Administrative Regulations (Sections 3000 - 3009)
and look up the definitions of "repairs", "replacement" and alterations?

Do you have a permit for the controller you currently have?
Save yourself a ton of money and do it right the first time.

It is and will for ever be the building owner's responsibility.
As the owner's agent you have a duty to inform them. Do so with out delay.

I didn't believe they were telling the truth, which is why I'm enquiring about it here. Ive had three companies look at it, and they all told me the same thing. Thats great news if all I need to do is change the controller, however, it seems no company is willing to only do just that.

If any company recommendations can be made, I'm all ears. Theres not a single company in Los Angeles with positive reviews.

From the pictures, I do not see a velocity encoder, or a position encoder. I assume that this is single speed or 2 speed AC setup. I think you will find that most Elevator Companies won't touch this because they have to abide by the A17.1 Elevator Code. Your present Controller looks too simplistic. You have an old analog Reverse Phase apparatus matched with some type of Computer, I see no UL approved Badge anywhere. I too would run from this if asked to work on it.I understand your predicament, if you put a proper Elevator system in, you will have to put in Fire Service, Sprinklers, and other Code mandated systems. You have only two safe choices; walk the Stairs, or Bite the Bullet, and upgrade.

If any company recommendations can be made, I'm all ears. Theres not a single company in Los Angeles with positive reviews.[/quote]

Don't believe every Yelp review you read in regards to elevator companies as it is the case more often than not that the disgruntled customer is the one that will leave a review. Sadly for every 1000 customers who are satisfied, the one that writes the review is the one who had something not go their way, however small the issue or delay. There are plenty of good companies out there whos goal is to provide you with excellent service.

Also, be very cautious in regards to trying to deceive anyone in the elevator industry and remember that elevator mechanics and inspectors have seen it all and will definitely notice something out of place. Then you have a whole new set of problems.

My suggestion is to MOD the elevator. It sucks, but like buying a new car, sooner or later has to be done.

Peter,

Looking at the controller you posted I noticed two things that stand out most!

1) There is no identification as to who manufactured the controller.
2) There is no UL listing sticker posted in the controller.

As far as the elevator companies in your area not wanting to change out or repair the controller, put yourself in their shoes. You may have a PLC, but you are using technology and equipment that is 75+ years old. Personnaly, we wouldn't fix this elevator either. There is too much liability that goes with that type of equipment. I recommend you modernize the elevator. It's the responsible thing to do.

Peter, I am not trying to pile up on you here. I am sure you can tell from the responses that this is a sore subject for us all. However, I know that there are some very good elevator companies in the LA area. Some of them are on here and are reading this now. Perhaps you have not called the right company. I suspect they will all tell you the same thing, and it will come down to price and how quickly they can get it done. In any event, you have now raised this issue and there is a trail that the lawyers will trace back in the unfortunate event of an accident down the road.

I realize you were hoping for a great and easy solution but alas.......

sadly the owner of the building probably drives a car that is worth at least the price of replacing this elevator. have seen quite a few of these "garage engineered" elevators in los angeles, it is always the same response from the owners when they are informed it is time to modernize the equipment. I'm sure you can guess what the answer is. unfortunately the residents are the ones who are suffering. I'm sure the management is not giving any of the tenants a break on there already overpriced apartment. There are plenty of good small companies in los angeles.

Without a backup of the PLC program you are dead in the water. The program is stored on a ram module which is battery backed until unplugged then you have so many seconds to get it plugged into a unit. I doubt replacing the power supply will do anything. Serge used a lot of these units. The TI software program and special cable is required to reload the PLC. Maybe the manufacture of the controller has files. That will be your only hope. Almost all Union Companies would back this up to prevent disaster.