Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions 8 Stop Roped Hydro

Have a customer that is looking to replace a elevator that currently has inground jack with 76' of rise(that's right, a 8 stop inground hydro!) with a piston follower and a crooked drill casing in the ground. Given the existing overhead clearance and pit depth a MRL traction isn't really an option. It appears that a twin post roped hydro would fit in the existing hositway with the current pit and overhead. I know commercial roped hydros get a bad rap from a lot of people but the very few 3-4 stop Otis and US roped hydros we have on service have ran fairly well and really havn't given us much problems.

We are looking at a using a MEI or Canton roped hydro package. Has anyone had issues when you get this much rise with one of these?

What’s wrong with the existing in ground jack ? Why not just replace that if it’s leaking

I have installed some roped hydro Canton packages and maintain some others have installed. I would say the number one critical factor here is install quality. The ones that were hackjob installs had to be fixed. I know everyone wants to think they can put stuff in right (or their mechanics on the payroll can) but honestly there's also alot of folks installing that either have no business doing so or just do an OK job. If you or your guys can do a top notch job, put the Canton in. It's a high quality elevator.

The threaded jack connection on the bottom of the casing, USE EXPANDO. Clean both sides with brake clean first then expando that connection before setting the casing. I mentioned the bad installs ended up having to be fixed...

The Canton is best paired with a Virginia controls MH-3000 controller in my opinion. Gives it that run for 50 years type of reliability.

We just installed a MEI freight car. Overall not bad, but I wasn't impressed with the amount of missing parts. I have no experience with a roped hydro MEI. My company likes to put in alliance. I'm not sure if alliance even offers a roped hydro, but in my opinion Cantons quality Is overall better than Alliance anyhow.

I guess they have had issues with it clunking since it was new and different company came in tried to re-plumb it and said the well casing is crooked. So rather then pulling all 76’ of casing and hope they can get it plumb by re-drilling they wanted to replace it with something they know won’t give them the same issues.

How tall of roped hydros have you installed?

Tallest one was a 6 stop, three 5 stops.

I agree with posts above about the Canton package with a Virginia MH3000 controller... my few notes on it based off my experience....

- make sure to do roller guides and not slide guides (not sure if Canton changed to only provide roller guides yet or not but it does make a big difference)
- use a maxton valve - just my opinion but I think the adjustments on a maxton can really provide a better overall running car in the end in this situation
- be mindful of your trough/duct run in the shaft, specifically if the machine room is located in the back of the hatch - the bolster channel for the platform has the connection points for the hoist ropes which is located basically in between the main guide rail and the jacks and piston followers - this is where it can get tight with trough if the machine room is located in the back of the hoistway because the trough will need o run to the front of the shaft so it has to fit behind the jack, main guide rails and has to have the clearance for the bolster channel to pass by
- like someone above said - use expando on the threaded portion under the jacks.
- Typically the way Canton sets these up is pretty tight. there is basically one corner stuffed with your trough, limit switches, selector tape, etc. - Again just my opinion but I always like to pay close attention to the dimensions on their drawings as it is a tight fit.

Canton’s roped hydro package price is up 20% from last December quotes

It's been probably close to 20 yrs ago or more, but I did a jack replacement on a 10 stop in ground with followers that was leaking due to a badly welded joint. What a pain that thing was. More rise than I've ever seen on a hydro.

I used to put in Canton units at this same time, and most are still running well. Controls have been modernized over the years, but the hydraulics have endure the test of time.
As someone mentioned, a good install goes a long way. Fortunately, I was taught by some of the best back in the beginning.

I'm a bit confused on this topic.

Why wouldn't you just replace the in ground casing and plunger? The purpose of the dual post jacks is to eliminate having to drill down but that doesn't seem to be an issue here. Also doesn't the existing elevator have a counterweight? Or is it cantilevered with a sheave?

In my experience dual post elevators are not as reliable, require more maintenance, are more time consuming to install and altogether just aren't as nice a product. I see them as a compromise when you can't drill or otherwise need the space below. I've installed 3 canton single stage roped hole-less and I don't like them and I have now maintain 2 that some hack company that went bust installed and they are a nightmare. I've never installed or seen a telescopic roped hole-less and would be very concerned about how it's stabilized and what maintenance is required. Is it like the inverted 330a jacks? Plastic pulleys and a special repack toolkit? No thank you I say.

You better check to see if the roped hydro will fit and be able to get daylight on the cab lined up with the door bucks. The roped hydro needs more room on the sides and your cab will not be able to line up with your door bucks

A little more back story is that the jack hole in the ground apparently was drilled crooked and they had issues with the jack banging from day one. Also the original company( out of business for years now) that installed the job engineered and manufactured the elevator themselves and also added a jack follower they built which also failed on multiple occasions. So with all the frustrations of the original car they don't want to go through unknowns of pulling the jack, casing and re-drilling.

Like David said youll want to confirm your hoistway dimensions to the T.... a roped hydro requires more hoistway space as it has a governor, two jacks, piston follower rails, etc to account for.... that might be the ultimate deciding factor here - it may just be cheaper surprisingly to redrill and do a new jack versus essentially rebuilding a hoistway.

Is there room to install another set of rails in rear of hoistway? We converted one to a cantilever. This all depends on hoistway size. Assuming there retaining existing cab and platform?