Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Every Morning, it doesn't work

1979 Otis elevator for a 4 story building. Holds 6-8 people. I'm the building manager, and our elevator will work fine all day, but the next morning is the doors won't open until we turn the power off and then back on.

I've had union elevator repair out 6 times, they've checked everything, cleaned every nook and cranny, and have run up over $6K in charges and it still isn't working when we arrive in the mornings. They are suggesting a $20K computer upgrade kit. I feel like we're being taken to the cleaners, this elevator worked fine for the 6 years I've been here, until we switched to this new company (the old company was bought out and went up 50% on maintenance) It stopped working conveniently after they provided their first maintenance on it.

Obviously I need a 2nd set of eyes on it, I'm just wondering if this problem rings a bell to anyone.

Plenty of bells ring with this type of issue, but let me ask; are you cycling the power before you call for service (for the benefit of your tenants), or is the service tech approaching a non running unit? This plays a big part.
The fact that it sits overnight and this inactivity triggers the problem may be a good clue.
Also, can you determine, when you arrive in the mornings what floor the elevator is on? Either a position indicator in the hallway or you can peek through the doors with a flashlight if they open from the center or from the side gap between the door panel and the door jamb to determine its location.
Any clue especially repetitive ones help the tech to narrow down the possibilities.
Service maintenance contracts aren’t cheap, but it sounds as if you either don’t have one or it’s the rock bottom contract which does not cover callbacks nor parts.

If the elevator motor is DCV and it has its own generator for power, the generator has a timer that shuts it down after a period of non-use. Often time the generator will not start back up because the relay or vacuum tube is faulty. This is a common and easily identifiable problem. Any competent elevator mechanic would look there first. There are also Bldgs. with a panel in the lobby that may have key switches and related devices in it. Good luck.

Thank you for the reply. I do not turn the elevator back on, I have waited for the repair tech to come. In the end, he just turns it off and back on and only then does it operate. It is on the first floor everytime, but it's the only elevator and I think that is simply because the last person rides it down.

Is it a hydraulic elevator?

Always at the first floor is that the bottom floor? I did assume it’s a hydraulic pump elevator.
Does the building have a cleaning crew that arrives after hours? If so, might they be blocking the doors open to mop and dry the cabin floor? That could be an issue. Just a thought.
I Would also examine of the workings of the hydraulic valve, and checking the timer that shuts the pump off if it runs too long and does not reach an intended destination (or just releveling up to floor level, which is suspect in your case) which is reset by cycling the power. Trouble is, most shutdown faults are reset by cycling the main power, but yours is narrowed down to after hours.

Is it a relay controller? Could we get a copy of the wiring diagram to trace the circuit related to re-opening of doors. I believe the wiring diagram is your property and is not subject to IP rights of OTIS.
Once we have the wiring diagram; we may be able to offer a solution.

Morning wood maybe?

I agree elmcannic, i’ve had a few issues in the past where levelling speed was set incorrectly and would time out on low oil timer on a relevel

More than once had I found that stupid F/S adjuster drift towards S when the three allen screws backed off just enough. Older valve as well as newer. Doing service work, who’d ever thought to check valve hardware? It’s like checking vic bolts…who does that? Until you’ve got a drip.

Honestly this elevator is 44 years and it is near the end of its life even if you get it fixed you should probably start budgeting for a modernization. Sounds like you’ve already wasted $6k and your elevator isn’t anymore reliable. You have to understand stuff wears out the mechanical tolerances change and it will never operate like new. I bet you don’t drive a 44yr old car to work everyday. It’s only going to become more costly and time consuming sourcing parts and keeping that elevator going. I’m sure it’s not what you want to hear but I don’t think your elevator company is steering you wrong. Just my 2 cents.

I use the car analogy alot with helping customers understand things. I've driven 4 plus hours today and can count on one hand how many cars older than 1990 I seen on the road.

Hi Volunteer 19. If the lift works correctly after reset by switching off the power and switching it on, most probably it has nothing to do with the hydraulic system, but is related to the door system.
Has the technician disabled relevelling?
1. Maybe after standing all night the piston is sinking and the lift is slipping past the door zone sensor. And if this happens, the door won't open when a call is registered at the first floor. But technically it should answer other floor calls. Have you checked calling the lift from the upper floors when this happens?
2. Or maybe after some time period the door circuit is timing off and is not coming on when a call is registered.

I think it is point 1, and when power is switched off and on, the lift travels to the floor to reset its count and reenters the doorzone again to make the doors operate.Since you say that the lift works fine the whole day, I suspect it is a sinking/relevelling disabled problem.

If this is the case let us know and we can suggest corrective action.

So yesterday it wouldn't call to the 4th floor when it was on the 4th floor, I walked down stairs to the 3rd floor and it called and worked. I think you are on to something. How do I fix this?

Oh. New information.

DCL or loose chain, or belt probably LRV UNIT track tp

On a relay logic controller the reopen circuit is separate than a actual hall call. So the Elevaor is not reopening the door when sitting at the floor. See if You can duplicate this scenario again through out the day. This will pinpoint the problem.

Hi Volunteer 19
The service chap has disabled relevelling. This is why when a lift halts for a long time at a floor, the piston sinks, the lift leaves the door zone and since it is out of DZ, when a call is registered, without DZ on, the door will not open on this floor.
This is why when you called the lift from the 3rd floor, the lift stopped in the DZ and the door opened. For the lift doors to open, the DZ signal must be active, and if the lift sinks it leaves the DZ hence the doors won't open as the circuit
path is broken when it is out of DZ.


When you observe this happening next time, after calling the lift from another floor and doors open, return to the floor where the door was not opening with a lobby call. If it opens, then 100% relevelling is disabled by the elevator technician. Cool ways of surreptitiously forcing you to modernize the lift.

Your lift is good.No need for upgrading.

Slap a legal case on the maintenance company or raise a complaint with the consumer protection society.

19’s been running silent. Maybe his lift is fixed? It would be nice to read a followup if that’s the case.