Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Schindler 3300 belt replacement

So long story short a schidler 3300 we have under maintenance contract has reached the 1 million mark and shut down. The building owner wants to mod it since you have to change the belts to mod it anyway. Now is the perfect time to do so. Does anyone have any info on a safe way to replace these belts while doing a mod? Thanks in advance.

Probably do them the same as the Otis belts. Their was a conversation in here somewhere that goes over how to do it several ways. If you can't find it I'll try an look it up for you

Be careful falling for mods, especially it pressured by the smaller independent companies cause that's how they make money as scammers. I'm not against mods or the little companies. Just do your HW first. Sometimes they'll trick consumers in the getting a mod because it's an older unit (obsolete scam), when just a simple Granger relay needs replacing, or if it's from an OEM company (non-proprietary gimmick). Schindler 3300s definitely outperform Smartrise and their Fermator door operators definitely work better than those outdated mechanical harmonic door operators the little companies love to install from GAL. And, don't get me started with those crappy Nylube door feet, where the bolts fail. I wish they'd quit making those. They're just too outdated and don't work as good as the linears.

They are doing a mod because of the bend cycle counter? Are you changing belts just to mod it? It will run on inspection just fine even though it’s on 1m runs… Just curious what are you guys replacing it with?

Here's some info on the belts: https://firstchroniclesproductions....trol%20System%20Basics%20REV%200.3.5.pdf

Fermator outperforming gal operators? Your local must drink alot of union koolaid.... those units are overall junk. The whole thing. Yeah alot of little shops try to get them to mod, but that's less dishonest than the big 4 manipulating architects to get them to spec a proprietary unit on the building plans knowing their going to cost the owner far more money in the long run, but schindler/otis/kone made their money installing a traction in a 2 story building to go 8 feet.

Also, I'd just change the belts. It's not that big of a deal

I agree fermators are junk they fail all the time, GAL makes a drop in for it I believe but I haven’t installed one yet.

GAL does make a drop in and it works very good. We have never had any quality issues out of the Fermators, just long lead time for parts and of course the money that Adams charges.

When praising Fermator over GAL. I was mostly referring to the fact that GAL, which they should stop doing this because all the others have long stopped, is that they still make those old style mechanical link driven (harmonic) operators, such as MOVFR. They need to stop for many good reasons. These reason are why most other countries have ban the use of such operators. I do agree that GAL makes good linear operators, like MONXT, which is very similar to a Fermator mechanically, but better built. The only drawback is that it's very new to the industry and may still have minor bugs.

Reasons why I absolutely hate mechanical operators:

1. The dangers of the gate switch. They can get inadvertently or intentionally pressed, compromising the safety system. Not all jurisdictions require DLM. Even with DLM, it can still be problematic. The lift could go out of service trapping people on upper floors who can't walk stairs, especially in high-rise apt buildings with only 2 lifts. The new-style linear ones have cabin door interlocks (no gate switch), making such situations impossible. Here's an ex. of what I'm talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEOkZDBCDiw
Being able to spit the door at floor level is also bad. Pranksters are capable of manually separating the doors compromising the lock system, or sticking feet in door at final end of close cycle. This can also happen if a spring or roller is weak and the door strikes an object. This scenario can be dangerous if jumpers are left behind and no DLM installed, or case a system shutdown w/DLM. Non-splitable doors resolve this. Ex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ6Izd0TnRU Imagine if a jumper were on that hall lock. PS: The original idea behind splitable doors was, back in the day, there was more moving parts on the door panel, such as push-bar door retractor. With the Euro style, nothing is mounted on the door panel but the feet.

2. With the presence of interlocks, restrictors are no longer necessary. Harmonic operators do not support cab door interlocks and many types of restrictors can easily be disabled/bypassed by mechanics compromising passenger safety. Worse yet, those electronic restrictors like hatch-latch by Adams can fail in the locked position and are prone to sensor misalignment and dead batteries during power failure. These were responsible for many fatalities at WTC on 9/11, where Othis 6940 locks were used. For this reason, they could only be released from cab top. On new installs (especially all glass), no ugly expensive sheet metal is needed between floors.

3. During entrapment, Harmonic operators can become self-locking (operator can move the doors, but doors cannot move operator). This situation requires rescue workers to have to get on the cab top and spin the infamous wheels, this can be problematic in situations where the lift is on the top floor or in the case of a steep drop (i.e train station, garage). Linear door operators never become self-locking. Once interlock is released (can be done at floor or top), door can be manually opened from both floor level and cab top. Also, if lift stalls at floor level, no triangular or drop key is needed due to the spring loaded clutch. All you gotta do is push open the door. See examples below.

Self-locking ex. GAL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TnHnKU9EnQ
Self-locking ex. MAC (0:36): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcdMfuUJprk
Linear difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyjQC7llJkE

4. Use of Harmonic operators on full glass door panels is not only more expensive due to construction costs, but a fall hazard for mechanics. Operators propped up on pedestals pose fall hazards for workers due to a steep drop from the operator to the cab top. New-style linear operators eliminate this as clutch is mounted on roller header instead of doors. This also increases installation costs as more overhead is needed. Worse yet, big money has to be spent on ulgy tackly looking sheet metal between the floors. All this is solved by Euro style linears.

These are the main reasons OEM companies stopped producing harmonic operators. They don't want to get hit by lawsuits involving their lower safety record.

Oh! I forgot to mention. The absolute worse door operator is the Schindler QKS16.

Great points but also I believe code changed bc on the linear operators if they are in door zone / clutch and the elevator loses power - shutdowns you are able to open the door without a key just by dragging the hoistway door.

They were designed this way to make it easier for the FD to extract passengers, especially in places like CA that prohibit the key in the door, or in situations where FD has the wrong key. Think of it as a more evolved version of a retiring cam setup (i.e old style Westinghouse).

I just had one change of mind about the harmonics. One advantage they have is that they do much much better on antique heavier door panels than belts. The chain drive gives better torque and reduces slip. Another is that they can be quieter on extra large openings than linear. They also don't have to relearn after power failure due to the use of cam controls. Most of these pluses only apply to very old retained equipment.

What's more interesting is that GAL just release their LWL clutch for harmonics. This greatly eliminates a lot of the aforementioned issues and replaces the gate switch w/interlock. Great step in the right direction, since there are so so many GALs in the NA market. The only two things I don't like is that it reminds of of the now obsolete Schindler QKS9 (common in AU & NZ on their M-series), which had lots of problems and that the doors are still splitable.
https://www.gal.com/products/door-equipment/lwl-clutch-and-interlock/

This is what I see the big 4 constantly doing to their customers. At least in my area. Forcing mods .. In fact it’s part of the Sales Managers job description .. And the big 4s equipment is the worst part of the industry . It tarnishes the perception of the elevator industry. Very hard to trust a company selling you non proprietary equipment when it is as proprietary as it possible can be. Once the big 4 set up 3rd party parts distributers this became the scam. Sell proprietary as non proprietary because you can buy all the parts from a 3rd party lol.

Wittur now makes a direct replacement for belt driven lifts. You could find more info on the website.

I agree. They are actually very simple to change out.

The only complaint I would have have is do any of the generic controllers have trip counters to indicate when to change the belts? That's if you decide to go with Wittur and a generic controller.

The Wittur product I'm talking about is: https://www.wittur.com/website/product.aspx?id=3481&key=&pkey=

What distributor do you use for the Wittur? The Tyler folks are really slow and dont seem to be in need of the business.