Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions TXR5 Kicking my A$$ Help please🙏

(Txr5 with Vericon A/C drive)
EVERY Monday morning at approx 4 am. And Now randomly during the week.
I have 4car group shutting down at the same time with a Fault 10 FC Fault… we have had The building install a temporary voltage monitor for over a month and no power issues showed up..
I have changed all the LON and COM boards and swapped Gateway boards with no change.. I guess I can start swapping GCIO boards?
I have spent countless hours trying to diag..
The only thing that works is…wait an hour or so, go eat lunch Come back and the damn things will work no issues!! 🤬They will start working without doing ANYTHING..
They will start working as I am trying to diagnose them.
I think I have them fixed but Noooo. EVERY Monday at 4 am they will fault out again. All the fault 10..
ANY ideas guys? I’m all out of ideas and so are the adjusters.🙏

The entire group craps out? Maybe something with EPO in the common panel:group controller? Tug every wire in the group controller and apply slight pressure to any pc board in that same cabinet and see if you getta change in modes. Is there a group status or monitor that shows on a screen what command is being issued at that time? Hopefully not “Automatic”.
Weirdly enough, years ago I had a group of trouble free Swift FUTURA cars that were adversely affected by a recently installed rooftop antenna (leased out rooftop space) that got its signal wires routed in a chase adjacent to the hoist way right where the DPP transducer was positioned on the crosshead. Somehow that close proximity of radio interference caused all kinds of issues.

What is the Fault 10?

Frequency
converter
caused
an
emergency stop.
VEC monitors SH contractor. If safety circuit opens, PVEC can detect this event before Travel Control does. Therefore,
this event
can also be caused by a safety circuit problem
See measures and comments for SH_FAULT.
Actions to be taken:
- Look at Motor Control Event Log.

I have replaced SH contractor on all 4 units. No issues with the safety circuit. Believe me I’ve made sure all plugs are seated and wiggled every wire I can find trying to duplicate or prevent the problem.
If one faults out and shuts down. They ALL fault out and shut down

No Emergency Power option on this group?
Is so, disconnect the input signal or fuse that controls that input.
Is this a new problem on the existing group?
Any new construction additions to the building?

“Frequency Converter” fault sounds like incoming power especially as it affects all cars. Unless it’s only the group controller that takes a momentary dump. Building Engineer doesn’t know of any changes regarding power like upgrading main switching gear etc?

Whose equipment is this?

There is no Emergency power for this group. That’s a good idea I will disconnect.
It’s been happening for years but only happened a couple times per year. Now it’s every week sometimes several times a week.
There is remodeling going on almost year round. Several floors have been completed recently.
I can disconnect emergency power connections easy I’ll try that now
It’s Schindler Txr5 controllers
No upgrades to main switch’s

I just disconnected Emergency power circuit. It was hooked up. But I’m 💯 sure these are not set up on emergency power. Now we wait🤦🏻‍♂️🙏

Yeah goofy stuff at times.
Does the building use card readers or some other security feature? I only ask because they do interface with the group PB riser(s) and Fire Service which would affect all cars.
Just thinking out loud and your ass is probably pretty sore by now so we want that to end as well.

Well, it’s not Emergency Power circuit.
🤬 All 6 units went down at the same damn time this morning at 1am
They do have card readers.
They all connect to a LON16 board inside each controller.
I can start looking at that circuit.

Turn off load weighing

Is there an earthquake input? Another possibility is some type of RF interference.

I tried that. Ugh didn’t work. Went down again at 4am
Thank you for the response

Well heck.
The clues are;

All cars affected
Early in the morning
Becoming more frequent.
Resets themselves which is super weird.

So here’s a thought;
With the building engineer or managers approval, shut off Car 1. See what happens. Just leave it off (not on inspect or test mode but mainlined off) and let the other three handle dispatching. If the same outcome, try Car 2 etc until you’ve proven it’s not one car out of the four somehow pulling the group down. Could the Car that’s dispatcher, if it crapped out, send the same “Fault 10 crap out” command to the others in the group? I dunno.
I’m wondering about a group or individual car power supply issue where the voltage drops below or right at the operational threshold due to a flakey PS adjustable pot for CPU functions. Or-
Is there an adjustment on the drive whereby you widen the time frame on this frequency fault 10 to offset false triggers or give more time before declaring the fault? They’d all be set at the same default value I’d imagine.
And that Fault 10…it’s the only logged fault with the same time stamp on each car each time right?

Thanks for responding. I have done exactly that. I’ve been playing “musical Elevators” for almost a year now
I have shut all units down and tried to focus on just one.
I worked on it all damn day today.. never could get it to come back up. It’s getting worse
I’ve checked all power supply’s and adjusted to 24.5 volts
And monitored voltage as the fault and shutdown happens.
We are having electrician install voltage and amp monitors again for a couple weeks.
The Drive throws an error 733 which is a “current mains differential” error. It’s just very odd it shuts down a 4 car group AND the same 2 cars in a different 3 car group like clockwork mondays between 1 and 4 am 😤🤬

There’s an old thread on this site about the controller Txr5 and evidently there’s a SIMM card in the phone equipment Schindler uses. As the thread reads the controller can be accessed remotely and this “block operation” can be induced like placing a car or cars on independent, lock out operation and adjust parameters according to one posters response. I’m wondering if this phone communication business has anything to do with your issues. Check out the thread. I found it doing a routine internet search and this site with this equipment popped up.

This is just flat weird.

Thanks for the Response, We thought the same thing, and completely removed the modems and phone lines from all elevators. I will double check to make sure. There are 44 units total. These 6 units definitely have the phone modems removed.
I can’t find that thread. But I’ll keep searching

Although your ass has been kicked for quite sometime on this job, you’re still at it, so congrats on that.
Since these 6 units-two different groups shut down always on Monday early in the morning, these units are down until reset, or all 6 mysteriously recover on their own.

Any possibility you can have the building engineer (or yourself $$$) visit the site late Sunday and just key them down on Fire Recall (both groups), leave them and you’ll return Monday as usual and see if the cars are faulted with the same fault? I mean, they’re down anyways right?

Does the CPU on these units utilize a 5v supply or is it 24v?
And does the fault description “current mains differential” have anything to do with incoming power phasing?
Do the CPU’s give more info on what happened when it happened? All I would want to know is if all units were idle when the command came to shutdown. I’m hoping yours were and you can prove it.

Typically early morning hours is when chillers, boilers or large cooling systems are brought up online for the day.
If all drives fault the same when indeed they’ve been keyed onto Fire Phase 1 Recall (zero motion), I’d be inclined to point at incoming power and the drives detected the same incoming power issue in both groups. ***Both groups are in the same building?

I’d be curios to see the power analyzer results while these shutdowns are occurring. Seems like a incoming power issue.