Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions smoke detector

Hello all, first post.
I am installing a fire alarm in a new building that has a elevator. It is a two story building (school) with a basement. there is no sprinkler at the top of the shaft, but there is a exhaust fan. Does this require a smoke detector at the top of the shaft for the exhaust fan? I cannot find the answer to this question and everyone I ask is not sure. I have an elevator inspection this Thursday so I need to find out. I'm not sure if this is the place to ask this question, but if someone could help me in anyway, I would be greatful. thanks Joe. by the way, the building is in Philadelphia Pa. thanks.

shunt trip on the disconnect

Why don't you call the inspector and get the code? Or call the Philly fire Marshall and ask about the code.

I have shunt trip on the main elevator disconnect. I am thinking of contacting the inspector.

Why don't you ask the maintaining elvator contractor?

I agree with traction. You do not belong in the elevator hoistway or doing any wiring of FLS system or additions of smoke detectors. A state licenced elevator mechanic must handle the install and testing of all elevator related systems. Let the service company handle it. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want the liability of getting it wrong on your shoulders if, god forbid, anything would ever happen.

Give the guy a break he's just asking a question. And if he's a licensed smoke guy he can install smokes and all related fire systems in the bldg including the elevator hoistway as long as he has a licensed elevator mechanic working with him...More than half of the comments on here are not helpful in nature. I know we try to protect our work, but damn relax a little bit.

Yep agree mate. Geez we're getting a little precious here. I know here the building code can be a little vague as sometimes you can have just a sprinkler( and then whether its a dry head or not) or a smoke detector( and again whether its a heat activated or laser activated which are so sensitive to false alarms due to dust). If I understand some of you, the alarm is linked to the main switch of the lift? What's the point of fire service then? What if you set it off on top of the lift?

generally what happens you get assistance from the lift company to position the lift at the top for the detector installation and I would ask all relevant inspectors what required. Its not that much of a big deal if you do your homework.

Smokes is his work. As the elevator company we provide access to the car top and run the car so the guy can do his work. Anything up to the disconnect is not ours. We tie our equipment into his system. He was not asking anything that deals with our end of the work. Different jurisdictions have different codes. My route runs thru many different areas and some city codes are different then state codes. While testing all they need is a mechanic on site. If our system is done correctly then all the mechanic will do is stand by. If it does not then the mechanic will fix our end of the work.

Some elevator mechanics may not know the most recent code in that area. So ask the inspector on what he wants to see so it can pass. Or call the city for some literature on the code. What is required for a two stop hydro will be a lot different then what a high rise traction car.

Best thing you can do is get ahold of the elevator company who will either be taking the job over on maintenance or the company who installed the unit. Keep open lines of communication between all parties involved. The original question was in no way infringing on the work of the elevator company.

In most installs I have done with the fire system company a heat/smoke sensor was required in the top of the hoist way. No sprinkler at the top but a shunt trip is required. So if you do have to install a smoke you'll have to get ahold of the elevator company so a mechanic can give you access to the top of the hoist way. This will be billable item unless a contract for the new install states otherwise. The GC is probably going to be the one stuck with the bill of the mechanic to run that car.

good luck
Y

Like I said, ask the maintaining elevator contractor. I suggest this as it is the best plan of attack, and will keep you from having to do work twice, or get caught in a "blame game".

They will tell you what is needed, and will liason the required access and interconections to lift equipment as required by code.

Best to check with the elevator company or an elevator inspector. Fire code seems to vary widely even within certain jurisdictions.
Normally if there is no sprinklers there is no need for heat or smoke detectors in the hoistway but again it varies as to where you live.

No information is better than bad information.

Smoke detector's not usually required...but an uninformed fire Marshall may require it anyway.
Heat detector only required if a sprinkler is installed.
SHUNT TRIP only required if sprinkler is in MAchine room, Hoistway or above 24" in the pit.

you do not need a shunt trip unless a sprinkler is involved. The purpose of the shunt trip is to shut off power if a sprinkler is set off by a heat detector in the hoistway or machine room. All hoistways should have vents to the outside to prevent smoke from accumulating at the top of the hoistway. Smoke detectors are only required in the hoistway if a sprinkler is installed there, at which time you also need a heat detector.

Yeah local fire marshals seem to have the last say near me...I would say a dampner hooked to the system over that exhaust fan.good luck..