Home Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Flops and Bad Design

What is the biggest flop or worst design that you came across?

Isis prolly takes the title and the Otis Battery units was a pain.

In most cases everything looks good on paper to a engineer but until it gets in the field no one really knows and now its our problem.

Worst: Otis LRV, Thyssennkrupp 3 stage holeless pistons, Dover dmc sideslide door operator (rollback), Dover brake, Kone Mrl's, Schindler 330A, Smartrise glitchey processor, Amtech omega 1000, O&K escalator brakes, Gal aluminum arm on tall cabs (flimsy), Siemens softstart, Dover 4 slot, EECO valves, Dover I2, I3 valves (I know dover guys love them, not me though), Light bulb leveling, US 1220/1230.

Best: Otis 211, Maxton valve, All relay logic controllers, Dover dmc, MCE, Otis 311, MG'S w/ ssd1 boxes, jk thats too old school.

O&K escalators with gear set inside step band.

Schindler 321A, Otis MRVF, Anything KONE, and yes-light bulb leveling.

Otis MRQ-Spec 60,Dover IVO, Armor Dynaglide....

-Westinghouse World Class
-Otis MRS
-Armor TMS
-Dover T2 + Composite, never seen an ISIS thank goodness
-Schindler 330 plus(not sure of the model) the traction cars with the cheap AMF ice cube relays with the flimsy pins that bend and break when you install them

-Westinghouse World Class
-Otis MRVF
-Westinghouse Modular 100 esc-worst handrail drive system ever designed;followed by Otis 506 esc.handrail drive belt system.
Dover Dmc-take them all please..

Best Otis B-base..Elevonic 101/401,311.335.411,Gen,Gen2..211.Mce Hydro/Traction,Futura....Best handrail drive system Otis 506SL..

Any roped hydro, cheap TKE Aurora fixtures (Renaming them Enduro didn't make it better, go figure), PWM drives that destroy motor bearings and Virginia Controls with 200 plus ice cubes.

Otis MRVF, Schindler 330A, and ANY controller with a IBM relay.

Elaborate more on what made these so bad?

you guys have obviously never dug into a otis next-step escalator.

The IECA power units with twin holeless jacks and serial link Elevator Controls, and Atlantic Tech door operators. They are a disaster! They are built so cheaply, the cars shake, the valves start acting up the first time the oil gets hot, the serial link from E.C. Is not robust, any little interference and communication is lost. There are a lot of customers that must have been enticed by the cheap price. They are now paying the "price" for real. These were installed around the Midwest won't mention the name of the company, but it starts with the letter A.

Hey Elevatorfella, does the last letter of this stellar company end with the letter H?

No, "L"

I love 330a's, especially for troubleshooting. The feedback from the controller is awesome. The ride of the 330 isn't always the best, mostly from the rails in my opinion. A good sanding job and sanding the back of the follower guides (yep thats where they clunk) will reward the mechanic with a smooth ride. Replacing the CPU board will take care of most 94 and AST faults and is accomplished in under 30 minutes. The soft starter is easy to replace and I've been losing them on a regular basis, but they are made by Siemens and are also found in TAC20's. Other than the odd power supply failing I can't say I've ever had a 330 throw me a left hook. I consider these to be the friendliest elevators I've ever worked on.

Now, the LRV drives me beserk because of those stupid little wires and cheap harnesses and the fact the the CPU (in the car station) is often affected by interference.
The MVRF is a good source of deep cycle batteries for all the boats and rvs your elevator friends have, especially when they've only been in use for a few years. I believe the gearbox has helical gears too. They're just not fun to troubleshoot without training.

I used to hate DMCs until I went to bat with one that had shorted phases at the control transformer. Cooked damn near everything on the other side before blowing the fuses. After replacing every board on it and setting it up from scratch I began to feel more comfortable. I have a busy shopping mall with DMCS and WC (wire relay) and I have to credit the fact that they just run and run and run and give me very little trouble.

Now whoever designed the TMS200 should be dragged out in the street. I had word from a Finnish engineer that it was a control system and drive borrowed from a Kone Crane and adapted for elevator use.
TMS516's also fall under that category for me
TMS600's at least have a user interface to give you some comfort in your misery.
and you know while I'm at it, I'm going to throw a TMS50 under the bus too.

and EECO valves, because they're just Crap to adjust even after all these years. Why can't they emulate Maxton and allow you to control the settings independently? Why do they come out of adjustment on a regular basis? Why must every setting affect another setting requiring you to start over and re check everything you've just done? Why must they sit and provoke you, gloating in their ugly casting and vibrating a chorus of discontent to everyone who rides the lift?

Hydraulic MRL's ...... Enough said

Please post pictures!!! I'd love to see what abortion was constructed to save .2% of floorspace. Some buildings (universities and national defence buildings come to mind) have large easy to access and well laid out machine rooms with print tables and parts storage. Then theres some where the mechanics had to remove the controller from the tank to get them down the stairs to some far corner. I have one, thats in a shed in the back. Yep, bout 100 feet of buried piping laid in 1968. The machine room leaked, so they built another floor and moved everything up one level. Classic.

GP is that a NCE type? While not that bad to work on, escalators are really a pain in the arse ie removing steps, hand rail drives etc. We had a main step bearing callapse and was an absolute nightmare to repair.

You're crazy. Siemen's soft starters are great. Also how could you say I2, I3 and EECO valves are bad? Learn how to adjust them. They seem to hold the adjustments well. Ever worked on a Blain valve? They don't seem to hold an adjustment as well. Just my opinion though.

Worst pos is Garaventa Artira in my opinion. They suck.